5 Reasons why Guvera Limited will fail in Australia
The notion of using advertising to recoup the costs of offering a service ‘free’ to internet users is definitely not a new one. Infact some would argue it’s practically as old as the web itself.
I’d even go one step further and suggest that the majority of the internet (OzSoapbox included) supports itself in some way by utilising a form of advertising. Whether it be contextual advertising, capitalising on search queries, using advertising to sell a product or service or simply just participating in social media; Advertising on the internet is everywhere.
It’s no surprise that ever since Napster gained popularity way back when that various companies have attempted to capitalise on the ‘paid for by advertising with no cost to the user’ model and apply it to third party entertainment.
Usually in Australia we get to watch with envy as these companies start up in other countries but all that’s about to change with the launch of Guvera Limited.
Guvera plan to initially offer 256kb MP3 music tracks to the Australian public at no direct charge. Instead, in exchange for valuable consumer demographic information, advertisers can elect to ‘sponsor’ a particular channel featuring an advertiser controlled playlist and will foot the bill for each track downloaded from that playlist.
The music tracks on offer are DRM free, of reasonable quality (256k MP3s certainly aren’t comparable 320k MP3s or lossless codecs like FLAC but they are decent enough), and the advertising is non-intrusive. This means it’s onscreen but you’re not required to interact with it to listen to the music. Instead the real value pitched to advertisers is in the marketing data gleaned off Guvera’s userbase.
Here’s 5 reasons I believe Guvera will ultimately fail.
1. The exponential relationship between Guvera’s popularity and its downfall.
When you run a business on a model that is aimed at compensating copyright holders with money earned through advertising, you must ensure that your advertising income matches the amount of debt your users are generating.
Each music track download is an incremental cost that you as a business now owe to the various copyright owner of the track.
As Guvera’s popularity grows, so does the amount of tracks downloaded and thus the revenue needed to be earned to pay copyright holders. At some point advertisers are going to have to seriously consider the value they are getting from market research data vs. the amount of money they are paying to Guvera.
With absolutely no disincentive to sign up other then having to provide a ton of personal information to obtain virtual credits to download music there is nothing stopping the Guvera userbase exploding.
Currently there are 46 advertisers signed up to Guvera and about 20,000 users. Guvera predicts this number will double to around 40,000 when the service goes live on March 30th. Track wise the number stands at 300,00 but the site is still in pre-launch. Guvera expects its track offering to reach over three million post launch.
I have no idea what advertisers will be paying per track download but with numbers like that on offer I hope Guvera have a strong financial sustainability department.
With plans to offer movies and television shows. which undoubtedly command higher copyright fees, in the future the budget balancing for Guvera will become even more razor thin.
2. Will the artists actually get paid?
In theory when you pay money to record labels the idea is that they pass on money to the artists. Whilst this might work for major headline pop star acts, what about all the smaller artists?
First advertisers pay Guvera peanuts per track download. Then Guvera take a cut before passing on money to record labels. The record labels then also take a cut before finally passing on what’s left to the artists.
So what’s a cut of a cut of peanuts?
Probably not enough to make the whole exercise worthwhile for the artist. Sadly there’s not much they can do about it however. One of the caveats of belonging to a record label is they hold exclusive copyright over your works.
Late last year it was revealed that one of Lady Gaga’s tracks had over a million downloads on the streaming ad supported platform Spotify.
Spotifty operates in Europe which means a much larger advertiser and userbase. Despite this over a million downloads of a track resulted in earnings of $167 US for Lady Gaga.
Good luck to smaller less known artists operating in the much smaller Australian online music marketplace.
3. Broadband limitations in Australia
I’m not entirely sure what the broadband data allowance landscape is in Australia right now but when I left late last year it was pretty crap. You either had blazingly fast speed and some tiny data allowance or a massive data allowance on a sluggish congested network.
Either way you paid through the nose for the privilege.
Music isn’t such a big issue but if Guvera plan to offer movies and television for free in Australia they are going to hit a brick wall when it comes to what their users can download.
If people aren’t downloading and subsequently viewing advertisers channels then advertisers are going to reassess the value they get from participating.
Subsequently the entire system collapses. I can tell you now that major television and movie copyright owners are not going to be giving their content away DRM free without being substantially compensated.
4. People are morons
There’s plenty of people out there who, if they have the data allowance, would happily download the entire current catalogue of 300,000 music files available on Guvera’s pre launch platform.
Not because they want to listen to them, but because they can. Some people might do it because they have a genuine interest in listening to music they’ve never heard before but the majority will just be dicks downloading because
a. it’s free and
b. because they can.
This will play in turn play havoc with any perceived value that advertisers are getting for their channel supporting investment.
Guvera could of course go ahead and live in la-la land where everybody uses the internet responsibly but I sincerely hope they have a contingency plan in place to deal with morons.
The catch 22 for Guvera of course will be that the second anyone is penalised we’re going to see a lot of whining.
‘Why offer an unlimited music track download service if it’s not really unlimited?
I was halfway through downloading the entire catalogue when Guvera suspended my account. Then I lost my job, my wife left me and I found out yesterday I have testicular cancer. Fuck you Guvera.’
I can’t wait.
5. Advertiser relevance
Some of the big companies advertising on Guvera have been recently announced. Names such as McDonalds, Harley Davidson and Pepsi amongst them.
Now whilst these companies have unquestionably blank cheque advertising departments, what exactly are they going to do with a whole bunch of statistical data garnered from a cross section of users who like a particular track?
Presumably the advertisers are free to tailor the information they request from users but that doesn’t change the fact that the advertiser has no control over the demographic listening into a particular channel they might sponsor.
McDonalds might learn that people who like to listen to Greenday like Big Macs… so what the hell are they going to do with that data?
And as for Harley Davidson… do motorcycles even have music systems yet?
So what if Britney Spears fans think red motorcycles are better looking then blue ones?
Pepsi I can appreciate will use the market data to perhaps choose their next celebrity endorsement but for how long is that going to be worth subsidising a nations music track downloads for?
Whilst I appreciate the effort and concept of Guvera I can’t help but feel that be it a few months a year or even maybe two, the entire thing is just going to fail.
Early last year I asked why Australia didn’t have it’s own Hulu on demand service? Whilst I have heard rumours we are the next country Hulu is coming to, I can only imagine the reason it’s taking so long is because of the logistical nightmare it is dealing with copyright here in Australia.
That and our online market is comparatively small and local media distributors will be up in arms the second any online distribution models shows signs of viability.
Whilst Guvera is a step in the right direction I can’t help but feel it’s just a mishmash of old, tried and ultimately failed ideas.
Australia is a unique media market place and as such we need to bring unique business ideas to the table if legal online distribution of media is going to work here.
Sadly Guvera’s ‘advertising will cover all our costs’ business model seems far from original.
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March 19th, 2010 at 11:10 am Leper(Quote)
It’s definitely a tough market to move into, as it depends upon having enough subscribers, advertisers and music/video media to serve. The labels can effectively cripple the service on a whim too, which doesn’t exactly bode well for long-term viability. Development, maintenance and bandwidth costs will likely be quite high, especially while the service is developing and expanding.
If Guvera can obtain a critical mass of users and advertisers, then they have a small chance of success. However, at the end of the day their business model is dependent to the whims of three groups who are highly adept at acting immorally when it suits their needs (the general public who can’t help themselves when something is “free”, the media labels and the advertisers).
I’d like to see Guvera succeed, although since their business model depends upon a trinity of immoral bastards, I don’t think it will happen.
March 19th, 2010 at 3:33 pm Mark(Quote)
Your points would be valid besides one blaring thing you have forgot to mention. Australia was only the beta module. The main market that Guvera is aiming at for sustainability is the states. Is the largest consumer country in the world a big enough market for you? Even if the OZ side runs at a loss America will off set that by a big margin.
Guvera will work.
March 19th, 2010 at 4:36 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
@Leper
Exactly. If the Guvera userbase explodes and the record labels all of a sudden think their copyright is worth more the advertisers have to foot the bill. If the advertisers refuse to play ball then what?
I doubt Guvera is going to have any weight as a moderator as they are heavily reliant on both the advertisers and the recod labels.
In reverse if the advertisers feel the market data they obtain from Guvera users isn’t worth the copyright premiums they are paying and they demand cheaper data, the record labels will have to compromise.
If they don’t then what?
In both cases there simply isn’t a plan B; the Guvera business model just falls apart.
@Mark
What and you think Guvera is the first company to try and make the advertising for free music model work in the US? If anything the points I raised are increased if Guvera operate beyond Australia.
1. America’s population is much larger then Australia’s. This means more financial strain is put on advertisers as they are footing larger bills to copyright holders. Additionally market data is geographically specific. US data isn’t much use in Australia and vice versa.
Then there’s the issue of distribution rights. A large company like Apple can’t even get worldwide distribution rights sorted, so what are Guvera going to do? Also the price of music tends to vary from country to country. Australian’s pretty much get shafted when it comes to online purchases.
2. More countries means more people need to be paid and this means less money making it’s way to the artists. Additionally the commodity being traded by Guvera, market research data, has no value to recordin artists so they will rely purely on the value of copyright revenue. Historically this isn’t much.
3. Whilst broadband is limited in Australia it’s much more available in the US. On top of copyright costs Guvera will also have to deal with bandwidth costs. From what I understand the rest of the world isn’t as draconian as Australia when it comes to unlimited internet.
4. Tied into point 3 is the fact that outside of Australia there’s a lot of bored people with lightning fast connections and no download quotas. They will just download the entire catalogue because they can. How long do you think an advertiser will happily foot the bill for this?
5. As I mentioned earlier advertiser relevance varies geographically. If a company wants to sponsor a channel and trades exclusively in the US then what do they care about Australian market data. Then the dilemma arises of finding a company to sponsor the Australian arm of that channel, assuming that channels aren’t different depending on which country you login from.
If the channels are different then it’s easy to predict what will happen. The US will get the bulk of channels and the rest of the world won’t use the service because it’s the catalogues are laughably small.
The US market alone can’t support the rest of the world, even if Europe turns out to be profitable. Hell even Guvera traded solely in the US they’re already tackling a market dominated by Hulu and iTunes. These two are market leaders and have established sustainable revenue streams.
Guvera’s claims of non-intrusive advertising are a bit rich. Instead of sitting there and watching some ad you’ve got to sit there and punch in a whole lot of details for market research before you can download anything. Your basically trading time sitting there watching something for having to put some effort in.
Internet users tend to be lazy…
Sorry but the fact that Guvera plan to concentrate on the US market doesn’t in any way make me believe they will be any more succesful. I believe there just isn’t enough value in market research data in the longterm.
I hope that’s not a business strategy…
March 19th, 2010 at 10:35 pm Lance(Quote)
Actually Guvera claimed they were aiming for 100,000 users, not 40,000 users, by March 30. Still concerned about the sustainability of it all, as if you read all the backstory on Guvera, they seem to have a history of missing key dates to get the product to market.
Wait and see.
March 19th, 2010 at 10:48 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Yeah currently they’ve signed up 40,000 or there abouts. Not sure how they’ll go with 60,000 in less then 2 weeks.
Another thing to consider is that they are an Australian company. No idea if this has any bearing on global distribution rights.
April 1st, 2010 at 2:45 pm James(Quote)
I don’t think the broadband limitations really matter. It’s no different to downloading a song/movie off iTunes or even LimeWire is it?
People won’t be able to download the whole catalogue of music either. You’re given a limited amount of credits from each advertiser and once you use them all you have to wait until they decide to give you more.
April 1st, 2010 at 3:03 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
I think Guvera will change the mindset of the consumer/downloader. Currently iTunes forces the consumer to burden the cost so there’s a financial deterrent there. Limewire has the stigmata of you’re doing something illegal. For example if someone whinges to an ISP about their download limit the ISP can trot out the ‘well if you weren’t doing anything illegal you wouldn’t use up your cap’ line.
Guvera removes both of these constraints. I think if consumers feel they are obtaining media legally then the onus is put back on the ISP to meet the demand. ISP’s aren’t going to financially ruin themselves by increasing data allowances overnight so the end result is a data limitation set on the consumer.
This hurts Guvera’s business model.
Kinda sounds a bit annoying. Might be useful if you’re exploring new music but if you know what you’re after are you going to wait around for some sponsor to shower you with more credits or just fire up the Pirate Bay?
April 14th, 2010 at 3:42 pm Gay(Quote)
6th Reason… It’s GAY TOTALLY GAY!
May 22nd, 2010 at 8:56 am RJ(Quote)
Stop whinging & get on board. At the moment we have a place to get free legal music! Use it for what it is offering.
The debate on the business will fail or not fail is a waste of space. We want this to succeed. The music industry needs it. There will be a contingency plan, which will be if you do not have credits then just pay for it – as per itunes!
The more users the more advertisers – more chance of success.
Support the concept, don’t knock it
May 22nd, 2010 at 3:20 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Whilst I have no doubt the music industry needs services like Guvera, I don’t think individual artists do.
Once everyone’s taken their cut how much of the advertising revenue do you think is going to find it’s way to the artists. Then there’s the whole issue of advertisers just picking teeny pop idols and running with them.
The last thing the world needs is more Justin Biebers being sponsored by music sites like Guvera.
September 20th, 2010 at 12:12 am luke07(Quote)
Oh do shutup ozsoapbox.
Its survived.
Australia’s been getting free music for months now and the Artists have been getting paid as well as the site being updated continually. Everyone (ie: average Australian + music industry) gets something out of the site. The world loves it and everyone supports it.
Suck it OzSoapbox, Guvera’s awesomeness isn’t gunna fade.
PS: @RJ I agree
PSS: Individual artists *choose* to go under these record companies knowing what they’re getting into.
PSS: Oh and OzSoapbox you sound pathetic and ignorant saying that someone can just download every song. Do you even know about their credit system? Have you even visited the site?
September 21st, 2010 at 2:45 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
I think the key word there is survived.
Not that it’s bulletproof but Alexa is showing 3 month visitor numbers are down 25% running into September.
Since launching I know Guvera hasn’t blipped on my radar and I’d wager most Australian’s have either forgotten about it or have no idea what it is.
Surviving yes, flourishing no.
I still maintain that mainstream success will kill their business model so we’ll have to wait and see how they go.
Whilst I’m sure they do there’s also no doubt a lot of record companies who sign on their artists involuntarily. Traditionally in these types of ‘free’ services artists get bugger all and the record companies walk away with the bulk of licensing fees.
Much the same with traditional CD/DVD/Bluray distribution, whole part and parcel of belonging to a record company.
If it’s anything more complicated than going to a torrent site and clicking a torrent link, it’s probably going to fail. I know nothing is ‘free’ but credit systems sounds like a limit to me.
I’m not about to jump through hoops to listen to music (I do pay a monthly subscription to a popular internet radio website though).
October 4th, 2010 at 3:18 pm GAY(Quote)
It is still gay – totally gay! Every time I log in and go to download a track i have no credits.
Click on “Want More?” link – “YES I DO, I DO!, Tell me how????”. Fill out your profile to 100% and you get more. “WHAT I DID THAT 4 MONTHS AGO!!!” “Ah f#ck this – this is confusing and makes NO sense.” I want a whole album like most people – how am I going to even get that far??
Man,I’m going online to purchase my album from iTunes instead – I would rather pay – at least I wont feel robbed after the promise of something for free…
This business model has already failed.
January 24th, 2011 at 8:18 pm Ash(Quote)
Unfortunately for Guvera investors it lost more than $7M to year end June 2010. They had sales under $100K. They now only have $650k left in the bank. They now have another share offering trying to raise another $9M. Guvera is unlikely to survive.
January 25th, 2011 at 2:56 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
No surprises there.
I guess Guvera will continue to haemorrhage money until investor funds run out and then it’ll be time to try and sell it or declare bankruptcy.
It was a stupid business model to begin with.
February 1st, 2011 at 9:37 am John Norton(Quote)
Ash is 100% correct…….if you read the prospectus to raise more capital issued in November 2010 the auditor has given a qualified report stating that without further funding the business will fold within the next few months.
Even the Chairmans report shows very little confidence. The current outlay per month is $700k…with very little revenue and in the scheme of things very few subscribers…To ask people to invest more into this venture is I think immoral to say the least…
They have gone into the market with a heap of other peoples money and without a guaranteed revenue stream, without a proper business plan and model,hoping to beat competitors to market. Unless they can get some more suckers to inject capital (In the middle of economic uncertainty) they are GOOOOONE.
And as ususal the founders and directors and advisors will blame the economy and make plenty of other excuses…the fact is it was a flawed model to begin with and investors will be upset and rightly so.
February 9th, 2011 at 1:37 pm Gay(Quote)
BOOM!
February 27th, 2011 at 12:38 pm John Norton(Quote)
Apparantly they are now reliant on significant injection of capital with the help of investors via a non renounceable rights issue through a company called AMMA and from Goldman sachs and a capital raising company called Global lesure partners ($12 million to cover overheads for next 12 months according to Auditor).
I also note in the financial accounts which is public record significant amounts paid to associate directors for services….at least some people will come away with something.
March 2nd, 2011 at 1:33 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
I’m no finance expert but sounds like Guvera is turning into a tax writeoff solely paying dividends to its directors?
March 9th, 2011 at 1:54 pm John Norton(Quote)
Hi Ozsoapbox
any chance of getting an update as a followup to your article 12 months ago…on how guvera is travelling or functioning…the people i speak either had not heard of it…or tried it maybe once or twice and then turned off…as it was just all to hard.Be interested in your thoughts
March 11th, 2011 at 8:08 pm john norton(Quote)
Actually Ozsoapbox…six good reasons why Guvera will fail
Number 6. Money!!!!
March 11th, 2011 at 11:16 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
I’ll have another look at Guvera a in a bit more detail when I’ve got some spare time.
Be interesting to see if anything’s changed.
April 4th, 2011 at 7:30 pm John Norton(Quote)
hi ozsoapbox
Any news…I heard a whisper that they are bankrupt
April 5th, 2011 at 2:52 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Haven’t looked at them yet. Kinda worried about installing their software. From the sounds of it it’s going to be bloatware infested with ads… not to keen on whacking that on my pc.
May 10th, 2011 at 2:02 pm JP(Quote)
What are you talking about “their software”??? I’ve never had to install any software from their site. I’ve been using for about a year now and have got about 6 albums worth of songs to date.
I know that’s not a lot, but I’m not complaining since it’s free.
I don’t get nay-sayers like you ozsoapbox… you’re probably the type of person who said Facebook would not go anywhere either.
And why are you putting negative comments out there about a company when you know next to nothing about it? From your posts it looks like you haven’t used it much?
May 10th, 2011 at 4:56 pm Gay(Quote)
Come on! It’s gay, totally gay. It’s been around for a year… tell me, where is the buzz about it on the social networking sites??? No where to be found!!! I think that says it all…
Do a google search on it and the first page results mostly in negative blog posts about it. Investors have been ripped off – I know I am one of them. It is disgraceful. I think we know plenty about it now…
May 11th, 2011 at 12:44 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
@JP
Sorry, I should retract my software statement. Rather I knew there was a reason I didn’t want to test drive the system and sure enough from Guvera’s FAQ;
Suuuure it does.
uhuh…
Sorry, but I can’t bring myself to provide Guvera with my address and then it’s advertisers with detailed ‘preference data’.
This is why I’ll never use Guvera.
May 11th, 2011 at 4:23 pm JP(Quote)
Okay… fair enough. That is your opinion, and that’s fine. But I don’t get the logic behind your opinion considering you’ve never used their site?
That’s kind of like me saying I hate BMW, when I’ve actually never driven one. Correct me if I’m wrong. I’m only rebutting because I’ve used it and gotten about 6 of my favorite albums for free. I’ve got no quipps about that.
May 12th, 2011 at 2:44 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
@JP
If the BMW had a hammer fitted to the roof that bonked you in the head every couple of km’s, would you need to drive it to know whether you’d enjoy the drive or not?
I’m not going to use a service that entices me to share personal information with advertisers in exchange for music. Period.
Seeing as I can’t ‘test drive’ the system without doing so, it’s a moot point me trying.
May 18th, 2011 at 3:33 am Matt(Quote)
To quote your last statement it’s a moot point you making any comment at all. You’re a movie critic passing judgement on a film you’ve never seen, pathetic.
I, like JP have used the site since its beginning, got something in the order of 80 tracks. It does exactly what it proposes, free music to the consumer at no charge, the artist/record company receives royalty. I have never received one piece of advertising from any company that has paid for a download.
Is the author a disgruntled Sony user who now pisses his pants at the thought of giving someone an email address?
Think about the best ads you have seen, the Old Spice thing spirngs to mind – IMO one of the best commercials ever. I have never purchased Old Spice and never will. I would suggest the vast amount of advertising money, regardless of the company, is a waste. On TV or radio, ads come on, I change the channel.
If a company can (to some degree) pitch to their exact desired target audience and control their total spend on a campaign -and get specific data as a result- to me it’s a no-brainer that they would support it. Guvera seems to be slow to start and have a long way to go, no question. But I believe the benefit is there for all 3 components – consumer, advertiser and artist.
Word on the web is that a newer version of the site launches this week. I would give it a shot ozsoapbox; shit, make up a name if you want. I had to provide my email before I could comment here. Who knows what I’m in for…..
May 18th, 2011 at 1:45 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
If you’re not gay, do you need to watch a gay movie to know you won’t enjoy it?
Do you need a kick in the nuts to know you don’t want to experience it?
I completely understand how the Guvera business model works and I have absolutely no desire to feed ever increasing amounts of information to advertisers. I imagine I’m not alone in this.
Nobody is suggesting otherwise. If you read the reasoning given, none of it relates to Guvera not delivering what they promise the service does.
Guvera has licensing agreements with record companies, not inidivudal artists (the major ones anyway, I don’t know if they have a few indie agreements with artists). If the money generated by iTunes makes it’s way into artists hands at fractions of a percentage point of total profit made, how much do you think artists make off a much smaller service Guvera?
No, because it’s not just your email address you’re handing over. I value my information privacy and I’m certainly not about to hand it over for some free music encoded at a quality setting I have no control over.
Irrelevant. The Old Spice ad is passive, you can choose to ignore it. You can’t ignore the advertising (sharing your information) in Guvera as it’s integral to getting your music.
And I’m sure some do. But the conundrum lies in that if tommorow Guvera’s popularity exploded all of a sudden that minimum total spend has to explode too. Otherwise you’re going to be left with a lot of unhappy users. A fundamental flaw in the business model I highlighted in the original article.
If I can’t do anything without having to hand over information to advertisers then I’m not going near it.
The email address is tied into your gravatar avatar as well as future comment approval, there’s no validation or marketing purpose attached.
May 20th, 2011 at 11:23 pm Matt(Quote)
More than they make from people stealing their stuff online. You mention Pirate Bay somewhere above. Are you a user?
Guvera have maintained that they are more a piracy alternative than iTunes rival, and either way it’s more of an advertising model than a music delivery model if you ask me.
Untrue. An explosion in users would present the advertiser with 2 options: they either spend more on a campaign based on their original parameters (which some certainly could do if numbers start picking up) or they further refine their target group to keep the budget the same.
I’m not suddenly going to start boycotting a business if they have no credits on Guvera. And regardless, I can stream unlimited songs for free until more credits and different advertisers become available, which, if they can develop a groundswell, should be far more frequently.
May 20th, 2011 at 11:46 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
True, if you assume that anyone stealing their stuff doesn’t go to concerts and/or buy albums/merchandise. If not, then their either no better off or potentially worse off due to Guvera’s limited userbase (and the fact that advertisers aren’t going to align themselves with lesser known music).
The Pirate Bay was mentioned as it is the alternative. Whether I use it or not is irrelevant, however with Guvera claiming to be an alternative, The Pirate Bay’s functionality is what their up against.
Currently typing in what you want and clicking search is a lot simpler then signing in to a service and waiting to download a select catalogue of music at the mercy of advertising budgets.
Advertisers advertise for a return, not just for the hell of it. If they were to increase spend how would they measure the success of an existing campaign? Simply running out of advertising money is not a measure of success with the Guvera advertising model.
Do advertisers get to choose who subscribes to their channel? Apologies if I’m wrong, but I was under the impression it was up to the user which channels they looked at.
As for a groundswell, time will tell but I sincerely doubt it.
May 28th, 2011 at 9:55 am Alex(Quote)
Hey man, I actually live in Australia and dude, the internet speed here is fantastic, we do have limitations but we choose our limitations, we can choose up to a 2tb Internet plan. You must have a real shitty computer man.
May 28th, 2011 at 5:56 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
What does a shitty computer have to do with it?
Australian internet is one of the most expensive in the world and the speeds are nothing to write home about.
Why do you think so much is being pumped into the NBN?
May 28th, 2011 at 10:21 pm Maccas(Quote)
Let’s face it fellas, Ozsoapbox is a narrow minded, extremely negative individual who will rebut any comment posted here. I don’t understand the point of him even having a “discussion” page, when any other point of view posted is shot down. That’s not a discussion Ozsoapbox. That’s just your narrow mindedness.
So to anyone thinking of posting a message here. don’t even bother cause you’re already wrong. Ozsoapbox will tell you himself!
And Ozsoapbox. Open your mind a bit mate. I can’t imagine you’d have many friends with an attitude like yours. Just because it’s your opinion, doesn’t mean it’s the right one all the time.
Ohhh, and I’m looking forward to you telling me how “wrong” my post is too. This should be a good one.
May 29th, 2011 at 4:10 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
That ladies and gentlemen is the sound of ‘I have nothing else to add to the discussion so lets just throw a few random insults around’.
Any comment posted that I disagree with, sure. Why wouldn’t I?
I wasn’t aware you held the eclusive definition of what a discussion was. I always thought it was the conversation that occurred between two or more people.
All I can hear is a whole lot of blubbering like a school girl, ‘waaaah you don’t agree with me, you’re narrow minded!’
Next.
May 30th, 2011 at 3:15 am ausGeoff(Quote)
I’m guessing that there’s a lot of things that you don’t understand in this world Maccas…
You obviously don’t understand exactly what a “blog” is for instance.
A blog is a site wherein a person broadcasts their own opinions on the world and the facts, fallacies and foibles that make up its continuum. And anybody — including fucktards such as yourself — can post their own opinions, regardless of how stupid or irrelevant they are.
In fact, it’s quite laughable that you seem to think that you have some “right” to dictate to Oz what he should or shouldn’t be saying on his own blog.
If you don’t like Oz’s style, or (apparently) disagree so vehemently with his opinions and thoughts on life, then why are you bothering to post insults here? Why not instead post something at least a little bit imaginative or constructive? Or do you crack a big woody while you’re insulting someone from behind the safety of your keyboard?
Pathetic.
May 30th, 2011 at 8:25 am Maccas(Quote)
I’m sorry – you are right.
Many apologies.
May 30th, 2011 at 11:02 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Your failure in reducing a discussion into mere right and wrong highlights your simplicity.
Enjoy your day.
May 30th, 2011 at 10:46 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
Apology accepted Maccas…
And thank you for being man enough to admit that your posting was totally out of order.
June 9th, 2011 at 2:38 pm John Norton(Quote)
Hi Guys,
Very interesting reading the blog as to the advantages and disadvantages oif this site,and we may be debating something that will not be around to much longer anyway.
The bottom line is that this model has to work financially for it to be a successful and to date based on my research, as I am an investor, they have pumped significant monies into this and based on last financial reports they were churning through $700K per month in fixed costs and auditors and chairman were qualifying their reports managing expectations for a failure…
I am keen to get the latest Financial results . Advertisers are not coming on board and nor are subscribers in the anticipated numbers and now even more competitors entering this space. Unfortubately I am not sure under any business model how this can lead to anything more than tears for all concerned.
They have just released an invitation to an investors night next week where they will specifically talk about exit strategies for investors …basically it seems grab what they can now and cut losses …jump off a sinking ship…wait and see.
June 12th, 2011 at 11:32 am HD(Quote)
Hey great Blog Ozsoapbox I agree there is no such thing as a free lunch and your information traded for free music will be passed over to someone…that is where the value lies..its in the data base and the information held within…
Mind you I have given it a go and simply loaded it with crap to get a few feebies and I bet you there are plenty doing that.I wonder how long it will be before the advertisers wake up that the info they are getting is rubbish?.
I note also that Apple, google, Amazon are in the process of launching Cloud music …seems a much better solution to me,,also spotify is launching in the US shortly…Big Players with deep pockets.
I wish them luck but I cant see how they will able to compete with big players especially when you need to hand over your private info to get a song.
June 16th, 2011 at 5:23 pm p(Quote)
Surfing the net on Guvera…check out this link
http://www.guveralimited.com/pdf/OIS2010.pdf
and here is a snippet of why ozsoapbox was right
June 21st, 2011 at 1:58 am Matt(Quote)
@ John Norton
John I’d be keen on any feedback you have from the investor evening (if you ended up attending and would be willing to post here). The above PDF is from over 6 months ago, and it’s my understanding that since then Guvera was able to secure the approx $10m they had sought, which would allow signing the other big record co player in Sony, in addition to remaining operational in the short term.
There are a couple of interesting paradoxes here
1) Angel investors still appear willing to pump cash into this thing, whilst (as John mentions) user #’s seem to stagnate. Are they seeing something that outsiders aren’t?
2) Guvera may look to traditional advertising methods to generate buzz about their product; the very methods that they claim (rightly or wrongly) to be dead/dying.
As I mentioned above I am a regular user of the site, have downloaded scores of tracks and stream frequently. I can also see enormous potential if/when a mobile app becomes available. Investors like yourself must be frustrated that despite updates and improvements it “keeps hanging around” rather than flourishing. Did they provide any reason for optimism?
June 21st, 2011 at 7:23 pm John Norton(Quote)
Hi Matt,
My comments are not about the product but more about the business model and practices behind the scenes.
Unfortunately I could not attend and I am waiting on feedback from a friend who attended, I am happy to post when I get that.
My experience in dealing with these guys is that they put a positive spin on most everything they have marketing backgrounds and you can tell, so you need to be careful. I know that they are coming under pressure from existing investors and next monday they are having another meeting to discuss Shareholders options.
I cant understand why someone would keep pumping money into this with all the behind the scenes issues that exist…once again great marketing I would suggest . These guys are living day by day and relying on Angel investors.
I do know that some of the advisors that sold the concept to mum and dad ivestors were given incentives to sell guvera in the way of free shares, the more they sold the more free shares they were given a marketing ploy I was not told about this and found out later.
The people involved and these advisors all have very little hurt money invested if any. I think these guys would be looking at a quick exit and sale to at least get something out of ,something for nothing, not bad eh!!!, leaving the small investors like me and others carrying a loss.
I will keep you informed because if that happens the preverbial will hit the fan.
July 18th, 2011 at 8:52 pm Lily(Quote)
@Matt
I attended the investor meeting. While I agree that there was a great amount of positive spin being put on absolutely everything, and I would be somewhat reluctant to invest a great deal of money into the business, I feel that progress is steadily being made.
They are not bankrupt or close to it, and advertisers and SME’s are continuing to support the business. An app is being launched in the near future too.
The focus seems to have shifted a great deal from downloads and credits to streaming, as well as ‘earning’ credits from local businesses and through social networking.
I think the reason Guvera hasn’t taken off in the last couple of years is that the focus has been on improving the technology of the website, and making it more user-friendly (which is slowly happening). The focus still seems to be mainly on the US market, although advertising is properly starting in Australia.
Also – the balance between numbers of advertisers and users seems hard to find, but I believe that when there are more numbers and a better balance – there is real potential.
While it seems it will still take a fair amount of time, I think the final product may be worth the wait : )
July 20th, 2011 at 9:11 am John Norton(Quote)
Thanks Lily I agree with your comments about positive spin, I have had a look at the site and what a joke it is, firstly the model was built around the premise “Free Music” whilst the artists get paid ,paid for by on line advertisers obvioulsy this is not working so now they have had to try a different approach by approaching local gold coast Businesses to provide music vouchers for every $ spent in their business.
Lets get real here, how is this really going to encourage someone to shop at a particular store and who is really paying for that?, in the current economic climate it is hard enough to get the people to spend their money let alone run around town to source a store that will provide you with a $10 music credit.
I bet as a music lover you are going to run down to ‘platinum pool and spa services” or ‘Duffy down under boat hire” just to name a few on their site just so you can obtain a $10 music credit with Guvera….yeah and thats going to happen!!!!!!!
The consumers of music are not idiots they may have initially fallen for the catch phrase ‘FREE MUSIC WHILST THE ARTIST GET PAID”, however that good intention will not extend to shopping loyalty at selective stores not when there are so many other means of downloading free music without leaving your home. In 12 months time I would like to approach one of these businesses and ask how much new business was generated by the Guvera cards ??? I think I already know the answer to that.
Lets face it the first thing they have to do is drive traffic to the site for this approach to be even remotely successful and they aint got the marketing budget for that unless they can sell the concept to angel investors AGAIN!!!!
They are MANAGING THIS ON THE RUN and jumping from one model to the next desperately trying to find a solution and sorry to say I dont think there is one.
July 25th, 2011 at 10:33 pm Matt(Quote)
Lily thanks for the feedback; as you said the streaming aspect of the site seems to be getting pushed more of late. While I’ve been getting around 6 downloads every few weeks, more advertisers have come on through the streaming area.
The new version of the site is a vast improvement. Profile tedium aside, the live search and stream-while-navigating features make it a breeze.
I was using Pandora (expat Aussie in Ohio) and found I was skipping lots of songs, regardless of the station, which you can only do a certain amount of times. Plus, there are ads to sit through. I find the fact that Guvera is fully customisable and ad-free to be a couple of its biggest positives. They do need to get their app out ASAP though, if you’re not mobile these days you’re dead.
On the advertising side the deals page is growing quite rapidly. NYC is the only market at present over here but its gone from only a small handful of businesses to well over 200 in a couple of weeks. By the sounds this is happening in Australia too. I’m heading to New York in September and may try one of the places listed to get a music card – I assume it works like an iTunes prepaid thing.
I’ve read online they expect to be profitable by year’s end and are looking to expand to Europe early 2012. This, of course could be more of the spin you mentioned, I guess time will tell.
July 26th, 2011 at 2:02 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Sounds like Guvera might make it in the end after all.
I stand by the original model being dead in the water but if they’re reacting to the market by changing their business model, good on them.
October 18th, 2011 at 4:19 am Scooter(Quote)
Any more recent updates on Guvera? Any positive? Negative?
Many thanks
October 18th, 2011 at 3:07 pm John Norton(Quote)
Hi Scooter,
Apparantly they will be around for a bit longer according to my sources they have just secured up to $20 mill in funds to help fund the current losses and future development, they are not making money at this point but they have their eye on the bigger picture with a list within 12-24 months where they hope to cash in on the big buck…sound like the goold ole dot com days !!
I got a call from my accountant trying to promote and sell further shares in this..apparantly for every share sold they pick up bonus shares as an incentive….if it succeeds a big win and so if it fails they suffer no loss.Unethical to say the least.
November 17th, 2011 at 9:57 am 12ReasonsWhy(Quote)
Been reading this with interest and a couple of things I want to throw in here:
1. Their traffic ranking is terrible. Have a look at Alexa.com and compare them to, say, Spotify and Grooveshark. Raising money with NO traffic? Hmmmm hard.
2. They’re now repositioning themselves as ‘social media’ – full page advert in the Courier Mail (around $16k) – and doing TRAINING sessions for SMES on how to use social media for their business. WTF?
3. In the last week there has been 15 mentions of Guvera on Twitter. 8 of those were Guvera themselves.
4. I draw attention to this comment: “I think the reason Guvera hasn’t taken off in the last couple of years is that the focus has been on improving the technology of the website, and making it more user-friendly (which is slowly happening)”
Anyone smell a MySpace? In this day and age, the one thing you don’t have, is time. Incidentally, MySpace still has significantly more visitors than Guvera does.
As a standalone model, it’s sound. In a competitive market, its buggered.
November 17th, 2011 at 10:01 am 12ReasonsWhy(Quote)
And does this branding look familiar to anyone?
http://www.reverbnation.com/
December 6th, 2011 at 7:45 am Gabe(Quote)
Guvera seem to be getting a shitload of attention lately, according to Guvera. I do use the site and hope they make a go of it, but they seem almost self-reliant on revenue ATM, which is a pretty unsustainable way of doing business.
Essentially the only way to get downloads right now is by accessing their Facebook page with a “mini-Guvera”, you say you like them etc and get about 3 downloads a week. All fine and dandy for the user (a free album each month) but not for the site itself or advertisers. To get your 3 tracks there is virtually no brand exposure, the supposed whole point of this thing to begin with.
I can’t comment on the offers aspect done through small businesses, I don’t live where they are currently offered. (This would seem to be a potential gold mine; get music cards into 50,000 businesses, even $100 worth of cards a month and you generate over a million a week).
But just at the moment Guvera seems like the nerdy kid that gets the cool kids to hang out with them by giving them stuff. They like to throw these extravagant parties (as shown on their FB profile) where industry types and muso’s come. Until the booze runs out.
A direct quote from a Billboard story on the event “After the painful realization that there was no more Grey Goose to consume, the crowd thinned”.
Free music, advertisers connect with their audience and artists get their cut. Shouldn’t this thing be killing it?