Poor diddums: Aboriginals ask UN for refugee status
We’ve given Aboriginals equal opportunity.
We’ve pumped billions into their failed townships and remote communities.
We’ve tried letting them govern themselves.
We gave them an official government apology over how they’re ancestors were treated.
All this and still practically zero productivity, more whinging and demands for more money.
After reports of rampant child abuse and alcoholism were publicised the Liberal government decided enough was enough and put in place what’s called the intervention. In a nutshell the idea is that Aboriginals are forced to buy food and essentials with their dole money instead of drugs and alcohol.
For the most part it seems to have worked, infact it seems to have worked a little too well. Some aboriginals are so disillusioned that they’ve appealed to visiting UN delegate James Anaya.
A GROUP of Australian Aborigines has asked the United Nations for refugee status, claiming special emergency laws to curb alcohol and sexual abuse in the remote outback have turned them into outcasts at home.
“We’ve got no say at all. We feel like an outcast in our community, refugees in our own country” said Richard Downs, a spokesperson for the 4000-strong Alyawarra people in central Australia when he spoke on state radio.
The intervention, launched in June 2007 to stamp out widespread child sex abuse, had taken away indigenous rights, Mr Downs said.
So certain Aboriginals are feeling like outcasts over not being able to abuse children and drink themselves silly?
WELL GOOD.
Finally maybe the message is starting to get through.
And what’s all this nonsense about indigenous rights and the intervention. What do Aboriginals seriously expect us to respect their claims that they have a right to abuse children? Yeah sorry Richard not the best argument for your people there that one.
Unfortunately the UN is probably only going to scratch the surface and point the finger at Australians again and probably recommend we just throw more money at the problem and let Aboriginals manage their dole payments themselves again.
I mean it’s easy as an impressionable outsider from the UN to rock up, see the appalling conditions these people bring upon themselves and just blame the government. Everywhere else in the world the local minority seem have gotten on with life but oh no, not our precious Aboriginals.
Personally I lost most of my respect for the UN when earlier this year they entertained reccomending to governments that blasphemy be made illegal. Even more respect was lost when the Durban conference, which is supposed to be about combating global racism was again hijacked by Islamic states and used to bash Israel.
I really feel sorry for those Aboriginals trying to make it in this world with the rest of us. It seems there are simply no limit to the depths certain Aboriginals will sink to in an effort to get back the old gravy train of welfare with no personal responsibility or commitment they were on.
The glory days are over guys. Even if you are declared refugees what’s that going to achieve? If the global spotlight is shone on these failed communities do you really think anybody is going to see anything different to what the rest of Australia sees?
How insulting that Aboriginals who have it so good believe they are on the same level as those genuinely fleeing for their lives. I’m not talking about the asylum shoppers who jump on a plane to Indonesia either, I’m talking about the genuine ones who flee with nothing to wherever they can get to and are just happy to not be dead.
Really, not being able to abuse children and alcohol puts you in the same basket as a genuine refugee? Please.
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August 27th, 2009 at 3:29 am john g(Quote)
it may seem that there is plenty of money being spent in black areas of the nt, but that not my experience after almost 30 years out bush in the nt. i know of one black school that has an average annual attendance of 100%, in 1982 they built their own school, after 27 years they still have no toilet, running water or any office equipment at the school, this is not an isolated case. that’s not what I call a fair go,
August 27th, 2009 at 5:53 am davepoole(Quote)
Your using ‘we’ alot in that post, guess when you say ‘we’ you mean white Australia?
You also say ‘ancestors’ when referring to the apology. Ancestors makes people think what happened occured generations ago, like it is an old episode in Australian history. Well aboriginals were only given the right to vote in 1962, prior to that they were considered fauna of Australia. They were treated like some kind of primate, not given the rights expected by a human.
What do you expect, Aboriginals in Australia are a damaged people. White Australia did a very good job in screwing them up. With white Australian policies and the stolen generation still in living memory it will take many more years and lots more work, effort and money to have real equality in Australia.
Aboriginal men’s life expectancy is 11.5 years less than non Indigenous. Due to lack of access to medical facilities, Indigenous Australians were twice as likely to report their health as fair/poor and one-and-a-half times more likely to have a disability or long-term health condition. The NT is more like a 3rd state in a 1st world country. Why do you think there are high levels of child abuse? Why is alcohol so rampant?
I wouldnt be suprised if previous governments were ok with the high levels of alcoholism in aboriginal communities. Atleast if they are drunk they are less likely to provide and effective opposition to how they are being treated. If my people had been treated in such a way i would be taking a leaf out of Guy Fawkes book.
August 27th, 2009 at 7:50 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Is the school in the middle of nowhere? Is it going to cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to run water to the school?
I’m all for a fair go but not at the ridiculous expense it costs to bring infrastructure to the boondocks just to prop up a small number of Australians.
I mean what happens after school, do the locals then use their education to get all the non-existant jobs out in the bush? Bringing productivity to remote communities is a failed experiment. Infrastructure, jobs and support are all widely available in Australia, we just need to bring the people living in these communities to them.
The right to vote isn’t some piviotal card in the tower of human rights. Most of the aboriginals alive today have been born into the welfare cycle and due to the ridiculously lax effort of the government see no reason to leave the squalor.
I use the term we as it’s the general consensus outside the latte districts of Melbourne and Sydney.
If I go live out in the middle of nowhere with no infrastructure or medical facilities watch my average life expectancy drop too. It’s just not financially viable to service every square kilometer of the NT with modern facilities and it’s time aboriginals got over it. It’s not a lack of equality it’s just the harsh reality they need to wake up to.
Sit a bunch of people in the middle of nowhere, give them free money with nothing else to do and watch them self destruct. Child and alcohol abuse aren’t a result of stuff that happened years ago, it’s the result of self inflicted boredom and hopelessness.
At this point anything would be welcome rather then the standard ‘give us more money please’ line we keep getting from Aboriginal spokespeople.
August 28th, 2009 at 5:39 am davepoole(Quote)
I shouldnt write when im on nights, brain is too fuzzy but..
The Universal Declaration on Human Rights does state that the right to vote in free elections is a human right. (poor grammer, one of my first bodily functions to go on night shift)
So i would argue that the right to take part in government by electing representatives of the people is a fundamental human right. These are disenfranchised people, it took 156 years for an aboriginal to be elected to the oldest parliament of Australia (NSW).
I do wonder if fires wiped through aboriginal communities and destroyed homes would they receive the same help as those who lived through the fires in Victoria? I doubt it. Australia is a racist country, I have lived in many other countries and have never felt so much aggression and racism as i do in this country. Im white English BTW. In England things are alot more politically correct than here, and I think thats a good thing. Politically correct is often slammed by right wing thinking people, I agree with Tony Blair, political correct is justice. An example of racism and homophobia in Australia can be seen in the lack of reporting of racist crimes and abuses. A few weeks ago a centre for gays in Isreal was attacked by a gunman, the BBC reported it as one if its top stories, Australian TV news media didnt even mention it. (sorry night shift digression)
Australia has screwed up the indigenous people so much that it might be impossible to improve their way of life. With many suffering psychological problems coupled with addictions to drugs and alcohol also poor education it would be hard if not impossible to be self responsible.
August 28th, 2009 at 8:56 am Citizen-D(Quote)
Sorry davepoole, but that is just a load of horse shit. Racism exists here, I don’t doubt that at all, but no more than it does in any western civilised countries (including your precious England) and a hell of a lot less then certain other parts of the world. It’s called ingroup bias and it is a fundamental human trait, not a geographic one. Indigenous Australians have a hugely disproportionate amount of money and resources allocated to making their lives better, but the majority choose to abuse this. They can blame a lot things for this, and it seems most of the recent blame should be directed at the family members that abuse them sexually and physically. Saying that it is practically impossible for them to take responsibility for themselves as a people because of the past is a giant left wing cop out and just feeds the guilt handouts that we just dump on them without making sure it is used to their benefit.
August 28th, 2009 at 3:39 pm davepoole(Quote)
Well Citizen-D i think we can agree to disagree, yeah Im more left of centre. Also it is my experience that Australia is a more racist country. I was trying to say that Aboriginal are damaged, this is why it will almost be impossible for many to sort themselves out. If you treat people like animals they will act like animals. I regularly work with aboriginal patients and do find them very difficult to deal with at most times. Most that we see have very poor levels of education and dont seem to understand basic concepts.
I do see England with rose tinted spectacles at times. However I have lived in Canada, Germany, New Zealand and a short time in Qatar. Australia is the most openly racist country I have lived in and I live in Melbourne inner suburbs. Examples of racismism is one person at work referred to mix raced people as mix breed. Another calls aboriginal males ‘little monkeys’. Then there are the attacks on overseas students, some I think put themselves at risk by flashing their expensive phones and computers at 2 am coburg station. However many are attacked everynight in the cbd. I see them come in at work bashed, the news doesnt report their injuries unless they are Indian and they are burning effegies of Rudd in the street. When a good looking white Australian guy gets attacked in a burger joint in Prahran then its plastered all over the news for more than a few days.
As for ingroup bias im not sure what you mean, who is biased? The aboriginals or the white Australians. Wonder if Hitler could use ingroup bias for an excuse for trying to wipe out the jews.
September 16th, 2009 at 3:46 pm Smith(Quote)
What a load of garbage. Brittan invaded this land, used germ warfare to kill people on the premise it was an empty land. The Indigenous people who live in remote communities live on their country, the alcohol is brought in by non-indigenous businessman, the drugs are manufactured by non-indigenous chemists, the intervention in the NT removed the racial discrimination act in order to seize land and take away Australian Citizens rights. How would you feel if there was one set of laws for you and another set for everyone else? Native Title is one example of this a law set up to for Indigenous people only, The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Act and the list goes on. Would you engage a society that told you where to live, how to behave, what language to speak, what god to worship and what food you can buy. In Victoria where you live 0.1% of land is owned by Indigenous people, how can they get a start with no leveragable assets. The Italian came from Italy with their inheritance, same with the Greeks, Vietnamese and English. It is up to the governments and citizens to make the decision to give back what they have stolen.
September 16th, 2009 at 4:02 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Yeah I’m sure germ warfare was big back then. Saddam’s ancestors were probably racing the British here with their sea faring mobile weapons of mass destruction plants.
As for invasion, I think everyone can agree what happened a couple of hundred years ago has no bearing on the self inflicted delapidation today.
No they don’t, they live on my taxpayer funded welfare cheques.
No it didn’t. Cracking down on porn, child molestation, alcohol abuse and forcing dropkick parents to spend their welfare money on their kids has nothing to do with land ownership.
What you mean like everytime I fill in a government form and have to answer ‘Are you of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander origin?’ or the fact that nobody builds me a free house?
If this society was putting food on my table because I was too lazy to earn a living myself you bet I would.
What the hell does land ownership have to do with anything? I don’t own any land and I don’t sit around abusing drugs all day with my hand held out.
Right. Well does anyone have any ideas on how to give back the concept of ‘productive members of society?’ as I’m quite sure that’s the only thing that’s been stolen from them.
September 16th, 2009 at 6:58 pm Paul(Quote)
I have recently returned from my first visit to Ayers Rock.
Sorry……Uluru as its now refered.
During my 4 day visit I encountered lots of overseas visitors who, like myself, were enthralled with the sheer beauty and uniqueness of the outback. The Rock itself was exroadinary as was the Olga’s.No I’m not going to call it Kata Juta either!
During my one of the tours, I had to pay $25 for a 3 day pass to the National Park. We rose at dawn to see the sunrise on the Rock and were told on the coach that 75% of the proceeds went to the local Aboriginals and the rest to the National Park Rangers to administer the park.
The Ranger collecting the fees on the gate, on duty at 5am was white.
At the end of the sunrise tour the coach stopped at an amazing looking building which was the Aboriginal Cultural Centre. The design had apparently been chosen from a nationwide competition and was to reflect an Aboriginal theme.
To my amazement there wasnt a single Aboriginal person in sight, inside the centre.It was completely staffed by whites, including the cafe.
When enquiries were made by several Americans as to when they would meet an Aboriginal, the lady on the desk replied that they were “shy people” and didnt like to be seen.
News to me!
I cornered a ranger on another tour and asked him to give me the lowdown on why the local Aboriginals werent even working in their own Cultural Centre and he rolled his eyes and said “the Govt make it very easy for them NOT to have to work”.
It came as no surprise to me because I have lived in North Qld and have witnessed first hand the problems they have up therewith the local Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.
In fact on my last business trip to Townsville a group were rolling around the streets drunk at 11am and obviously werent to shy to be seen at all.It was a disgraceful sight to see them defecating and swearing until the police finally arrived and budled them off. Not an isolated incident I was told.
Back at the resort at Ayers Rock I was also surprised to see the resort is
staffed by mainly overseas workers on contracts from many countries in the Asian region.Once again not an Aboriginal in sight despite many employment oportuniities.
I’m sorry but as a hard working tax paying (white) Australian, my predudices towards this race is something I struggle with. I’m all for giving anyone a fair go but I think us taxpayers are being screwed.
Gotta go now…….have to get to work!
September 16th, 2009 at 8:42 pm Rachel(Quote)
Of cause a white man would say that. I’m Aboriginal and even tho I got the qualifications to do the jobs I go for I ALWAYS miss out to the White man…SIMPLE….My friend and I even tested this out one day after i got sick of being rejected for about a dozen jobs, we both went for a job in which showed i was more Qualified… (oh and I pay for my TAFE fees outta my own pocket) And SHE got the job…. But as usual Blame “Our kind” for everything…
BTW the guy on Today Tonight screwing you taxpayers over by recieving centrelink payments for surfing all day IS WHITE….
September 16th, 2009 at 8:51 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Rachel nobody’s saying there aren’t white bludgers either. Australia is full of bludgers of all races.
What can’t be denied though is the disproporionately high amount of your people on welfare who live in the middle of nowhere in unsustainable camps. These are the yahoos that keep coming up with ridiculous schemes and proposals to scam more money out of the rest of us.
Good for you for seeking out work, I’m glad some aboriginals are trying to make a better life for themselves.
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:08 pm Discriminated(Quote)
Davepoole:
You are absolutely correct. I live in an aboriginal community, 2963kms away from my family in order to make a living. Every single day I come across racism… I am openly called a “White C&*t” or my personal favourite “Cap’n Cook Whitey”. But I wonder what would happen if I decided to retaliate and call them (god forbid) “Black ….”
I start work at 5am each day, 6 days a week. I still don’t have enough money to put down a DEPOSIT on my first home. So if I own a peice of land over looking the water, I wonder if the Government will build a house for me? I will even lease the land back to them for the above said figure – a bargain I would say…
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:44 pm jacko(Quote)
Rachel, congrats on being the only abo out there willing to have a go. Based on my experience, your a liar.
February 5th, 2010 at 10:39 pm riri(Quote)
abos are leeches on society
May 4th, 2010 at 7:21 am albie anula(Quote)
i,d rather see this country go to my fellow country men than any one else.
May 4th, 2010 at 12:29 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Only if they’ve earnt it. People looking for handouts can go get stuffed.
May 17th, 2010 at 5:49 pm Matt(Quote)
The Sudanese and other Third World migrants have taken all the cheap rentals, making it impossible for the Aboriginal people to move to the city and get jobs.
It’s too hard to survive these days for many White Australians, so it must be impossible for the indiginous people.
May 17th, 2010 at 8:29 pm et(Quote)
Well this country is great on hand outs to all…….that why we are the “Lucky Country”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 18th, 2010 at 1:51 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Oh please. The only reason aboriginals don’t want to move to subsidised priority government housing in the city is it means the end of their alcohol + drug taxpayer funded lifestyles.
Much harder to live like trash under the microscope of society then out in the bush.
June 13th, 2010 at 7:49 pm lhana(Quote)
Im currently studding mental health and the effects drugs and alcohol cause for all communities, including indigenous.
Look, i am white ausy and with an open mind, can see all sides of the argument…. BUT…. one has to ask oneself…. if i was only used to living off the land, never tried alcohol or drugs and didnt know what the common cold felt like cause of a completely health orientated life style (one of which i was tought generation after generation, to only take what i needed from nature and love and respect mother earth for providing),and then some dudes arrive and not only bring there rotten diseases and start cutting down the very habitat i live in, not to mention stealing my children and killing my law and order system, while trying to instill there own one of which is completely forren to me, and then worst of all, showing me a coping mechanism called alcohol and drugs…. i am sure that i would loose the bloody plot too.
We must keep in mind that these people were never ment to have their lips touch the sides of a jim beam bottle. some people just arnt built to handle it. i honestly believe that it is purely a white mans invention to cope with the horrific things they have done to one another over the centuries. They would rape and pillage their fellow white men and woman and then drink them selves stupid when done to be able to handle the feeling of self hatred.
this is what they passed on to the aboriginal people so that they could cope with what the white men were doing to them and yet these people had no tolerance for it and in turn it became the only way to feel “ok”.
also as far as the child abuse goes in the outback, it is disgusting! but this is something that goes on just as much in your own neighborhood, rich, poor and blue colore white man do exactly the same thing yet it is heard about alot less cause they are the majority.
also, when you take away a peoples law and order system that they have lived by for years and try and instill your own without actually posting enough of your own law enforcement people to cover it you have a complete breakdown of morals while creating anarchy. dog eat dog sets in and the obvious happens.
All this however is no excuse for continuing on a path of self destruction and not making an effort for better. I strongly believe that we need to put more money into free education and self help opportunity’s for these people.
they as a majority,( i know some who are more together and strive harder for better, then alot of white people i know. and what an inspiration i find these people to be!!!) are on ma road to self destruction, yet i don’t believe they would be that way if we had just realized this land was already taken and left them to be.
The real question here is not why, but how? How can we as the new generation help them gain a feeling of self respect again and give them equal rights teaching them to WANT more for themselves? the person that can one day come up with a real and workable answer will be a hero.
all this i say though truly believing that people, no matter who they are have to want change. without that want, nothing is possible!
June 13th, 2010 at 11:44 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
That might have been valid in the 1700′s and 1800′s, hell even in the begginning of the 1900′s. But it’s 2010 now. What happened 300 years ago is no excuse. The generation born over the last 50 years were born into the same country as the rest of current generation Australia.
Why doesn’t the non-indigenous population have a similarly high percentage of child and alcohol abusing drug addicts?
Alcohol existed in Australia before the ‘white man’ got here. Aboriginals had weak alcohol fruit drinks, however it is true that colonisation introduced mass production and consumption of alcohol.
Alcohol actually originated in China and the middle east, and to a lesser extent India.
By the time the first fleet docked in Sydney alcohol production and consumption was long a global cultural trait. Practically every modern society at the time had some form of alcohol being produced and consumed. It’s not like this was a white men only thing.
Sure it happens but people are far more likely to get caught and prosecuted. Child abuse is rampant in the outback and nothing happens. Infact due to cultural political correctness, rather then rehouse Aboriginal kids responsibly, authorities are quite happy to relocate kids from one abusive household to uncle ‘previousrecordoftouchyfeely’. Well, so long as he’s aboriginal.
I don’t think any non-indigineous Australian has ever gotten off or had their child abuse ignored by the authorities purely because of their ethnicity.
Um, how do you make already free education ‘freer’? Maybe we should start paying Aboriginals to go to schoo-…oh wait.
Like it or not colonization happened the world over. Yes it might have been brutal and what not but right here and now we’re Australia and you can’t unwrite history. Coulda shoulda woulda, let’s deal with the reality instead of hypothesising what should have happened nearly 250 years ago.
We can start by applying the law to Aboriginals as it applies to the rest of the country. Then we can cut back on all the extra bullshit welfare we throw their way.
If Aboriginals don’t like it well the have access to the same health system the rest of us do. If they choose to slowly eradicate themselves over time then that’s their business. Throwing money, houses and whatever else welfare we’ve already given aboriginals has gotten us nowhere.
Cut the cord and for better or worse let Aboriginals establish their own form of personal identity. the person that can one day come up with a real and workable answer will be a hero.
I’ll expect my cheque in the mail.
Due to previous governments tiptoing around cultural political correctness there’s been generations of Aboriginals who have learnt from their parents that there’s no greater goal in life then to sit around all day with your hand out, abuse drugs and have zero percent respect for anything given to you.
After a turbulent start, Australia has tried nuture. Now let’s remove the welfare safety net and try a reality check.
August 10th, 2010 at 10:08 pm Wendy(Quote)
My god! Ozsoapbox- you said everything I was thinking! One thing we must remember too- the phrase ‘stealing children’ IMHO, is too harsh. Back, all those centuries ago- they saw these dirty, half starved children, running around in an uncivilized manner, naked, and uncared for. The authorities of the day, thought it would be BETTER for the children to be placed in the care of church folk, who tried to install in them, morals, cleanliness, and religion, as in their minds, these children were being neglected.
The same thing happens today in Australia, with ALL races- if you neglect your children, they WILL be taken from you, and placed in foster care.
Alot of these children grew up to be quite smart and intellectual, even though they were missing their families terribly, as would happen in any case where children are removed for what ever reason, they would miss their parents, BUT, this was how things functioned hundreds of years ago.
If you look at aboriginal children today- nothing has changed…they are still filthy, unfed, badly dressed, and now- thanks to their parents lack of care, come with very bad attitudes as well! Their parents get HEAPS of funding, via handouts, free education & housing, etc, and yet these parents STILL cannot look after their children!- so, if they are removed from their parents care, due to neglect- is this called stealing???? The same thing would happen to any race- neglect your kids- expect to lose them!
If Australia had not been colonised, by the British when it was, by the 21st century- another country would have came here and done the same thing- simple fact! – and put MORE money into free education for them? Geezuz! Whats the point?? They don’t GO to School! What a waste!
You know- there are alot of people in Australia, who are far worse off than aboriginals..how about spending some cash on them, why do aboriginals always need the help?-
I often wonder- and I don’t say this to be rude- but are aboriginals not an intelligent race? Why are they the only race here in Australia, really squeeling about how poor they are, and hard off they are, when they should be out there trying to make a go of things, like everyone else?
Why do they always feel sorry for themselves? Are they that simple that they don’t realise that? Surely they can see that their behaviour and self pity is their downfall? Money comes from hard work, so does self respect- maybe then others will respect them!
October 5th, 2010 at 3:49 pm Marie(Quote)
I stumbled across this whilst looking for real information.
I can’t help but to reply because I am so infuriated. It’s nice to see that some people are intelligent enough to refute what you have written, but it saddens me deeply that individuals like yourself become so blind sighted to the truth.
Have you ever spent time in an Indigenous community? Have you spoken face to face with Richard Downs and asked him to explain his claims? I’m assuming not, because had you done so you would never have written that post.
It seems that you have no clear understanding of the complexity and context behind the marginalised status of Indigenous Australians. Colonisation, alienation and structural racism are key factors to the current low levels of social and emotional wellbeing of our First People.
Perhaps you should search beyond ‘information’ sources such as The Australian and the Liberal parties nonsense (or Labours for that matter). Meet with Indigenous leaders, talk to someone from within an Indigenous community, perhaps approach someone from your local university?
Wouldn’t you prefer to not be brainwashed by a capitalist, racist and elitist hegemony.
Thank ‘god’ for intelligent people who look beyond such narrow minded assumptions.
As a side note, apologies is I come across as rude, I guess I am just frustrated. Deep down I believe that all people are basically good, and that perhaps you have just had different experiences within your life that have subverted your capabilities of fully understanding the situation.
If you are interested in learning more and perhaps challenging yourself and your current views (and hey, it never hurts to do so) than I would be more than happy to send you a list of resources that are particularly informative.
October 5th, 2010 at 4:50 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Here are the only truths I think are relevant today;
1. None of the current generation of Aboriginies went through colonisation. They were born into entitlement through the fault of their parents and the Australian government.
2. The bleeding heart movement, of whom you appear to be a staunch member of, have done nothing but foster a volatile environment of self pity, entitlement and social destruction. You have a lot to answer for.
3. Financially over the past few decades we’ve seen nothing but billions being poured in, and nothing of tangible value come out of these remote communities. They are a drain on resources that should be diverted elsewhere.
The harsh reality is that Aboriginal Australia and Australia Australia doesn’t work. Treating everyone differently doesn’t work.
I don’t crap on about my ancestors troubles and that hasn’t stopped countless people, communities and even races from around the world from getting back on their feet and getting on with the job of being prosperous and providing for their future generations.
The Aboriginals have massively failed at this and as long as Australia continues to blame itself they aren’t going to get anywhere.
October 5th, 2010 at 11:20 pm Marie(Quote)
1. Transgenerational Trauma. Look it up. Learn something.
2. Bleeding heart movement, or social justice. I expected such an assumption from someone so ignorant. Recognising the inherent racism in our system and the impacts of past and present policy is not fostering social destruction. Instead, I think you’ll find that through acceptance of another persons life, history, culture and individual circumstances, you can foster self determination and self esteem, allowing that person to attain a higher standard of wellbeing despite circumstances.
It gives an individual the confidence to make the most of their life. However, unfortunately, so long as we’re dealing with conservative racists this effort will always be marred by ill-begotten beliefs. Why would you want to swallow the nonsense shoved down our throats when you could instead further your understanding by talking with Indigenous leaders/Elders, alternative (ie. not government/big business biased) media, and so on.
Haven’t you ever felt disheartened because someone didn’t think you could do something? Now consider this on a larger scale, where a whole mainstream society expect you to fail.
Indigenous Australians have lived in this country for 40, 000 + years, with an extremely sophisticated society (granted without agriculture which inhibited the likelihood of settled townships and economies beginning, however, have you ever tried to farm a kangaroo…), culture, belief and law systems. I highly doubt that they have ‘massively failed’ so much as past and current government has continued a process of colonisation with the intention of acquiring land.
Sorry mate. I’m sure deep down you understand that the crap you’re talking is just under educated, ill informed racism.
I would say again that you should further your understanding of the issues at hand, I sincerely hope you do.
October 8th, 2010 at 5:25 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Oh please, throughout history there have been god knows how many established civilizations that were conquered and they got over it. What’s the key difference with the Aboriginals?
Of course it is. Giving preferential treatment to one race in the many forms of compensation we currently offer Aboriginals is racism and divides society, thus fostering ‘social detstruction’ as you put it.
Because such a meeting would probably go like this;
‘Hi, my name is OzSo-’
‘give us more money.’
‘uh what..? But we haven’t even introduced eachother ye-’
‘give us more money.’
‘Can we at least talk about this fir-’
‘Look are you going to give us more money or not?’
‘…no. I’m not.’
‘OMG HE’S RACIST. QUICK, SOMEBODY CALL THE UN!!!111!!’
The aboriginal way of life is incompatible and unsustainable with modern day society. Token warm fuzzy feelings aside, it’s preservation is nothing more then a massive financial drain on our economy.
It’s not like we haven’t tried to prop it up, but I think it’s long overdue to admit it’s failed. Get over it and move on – I for one will happily welcome Aboriginals into mainstream society and encourage them to make the most of themselves.
I’d see this as more incentive to succeed, rather then an excuse to ask for yet more money.
Oh please, they ran around foraging living a nomadic lifestyle according to the seasons. Let’s not pretend to call a spade anything other then a spade shall we?
I’m sorry to hear you believe anyone who disagrees with you as a racist. No wonder the public discussion on this issue doesn’t go anywhere.
November 20th, 2010 at 3:43 pm Jackie(Quote)
I am a young woman in my 20′s. I grew up in an abusive household. My parents divorced when i was very young, my parents battled alcohol and drug abuse and there was not always food for me to eat. In had a few girlfriends who were aboriginal and spending time at their place was great, because they had nice houses and lots of food to share with me. Their parents were lovely and would take us to the movies and to the beach.
Now, I am going to university and have to survive off austudy and a part time job. Its a real struggle, but we all do it, and we manage. My father has since died and my mum is never in a position to help me financially.
One of my aboriginal girlfriends is claiming abstudy, which is substantially higher than my austudy, which means that she doesnt have to work and is able to spend more time focusing on her school work. Her parents pay her rent for her and are always taking her out for dinner and spoiling her. She gets free dental and medical care and a few very lucrative ‘scholarship deals’ that are not available to me, cause im not aboriginal.
My friend and I talk about this, and she understands how i feel, she thinks its weird too, but i tell her not to worry about it, if she can get it, then she should take it. Us students need whatever we can get.
But really, how is this fair? My friend had a better upbringing and more priveledged life than I did. She will always have more opportunities and privledges than I will. She or her parents do not suffer from any trauma.
I do though. I always will. But the government does not care to compensate me. They never will. Its unfair.
November 20th, 2010 at 4:44 pm Rick(Quote)
It’s a way of trying to make up for the disadvantages we created for the Aboriginal population by committing genocide and stealing their land, a type of conscience thing.
November 20th, 2010 at 10:23 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
Hi Jackie…
Unfortunately, for you Jackie, this is simply because you were unfortunate enough to be born white.
It’s called reverse racism, and remains unacknowledged by the thousands of aborigines that take advantage of this state of affairs today.
It always amuses me that aborigines expect to be granted all these “privileges” simply because of their skin colour. Even if they come from a functional, stable, financially secure family, they’ll still get all these advantages automatically. No means testing whatsoever.
Ultimately then, who’s the more disadvantaged solely because of her skin colour; you or your girlfriend? The answer (to those other than the bleeding-heart do-gooders here) is YOU.
November 21st, 2010 at 10:44 am Jackie(Quote)
I think that you are right ausGeoff. With all the information about trangenerational trauma and social determinants of health, the predicted outcome for me, having being raised as i was, would be to have some kind of substance abuse problem, probably have children at a young age and recieve welfare. Well I dont. Im on the right track. It is assumed that I would have problems.
Because my girlfriend is aboriginal, it is assumed that she has trauma from colonial history, it is assumed that she is unable to take care of herself without substantial government welfare. From her point of view, that should be racist and pure stereotyping.
I think its about time that we start addressing individuals needs on a case by case basis, whatever their heritage, so that we can get some fairness back into the system and stop assuming that the colour of our skin determines our social and financial situation.
November 21st, 2010 at 10:38 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
Absolutely correct Jackie…
But… (and there’s always a “but”) imagine the number of financially stable aborigines, with fully functional family lives, that’d be screaming about their “entitlements” to taxpayer-funded benefits being withdrawn! I can just picture it; you HAVE to give us these benefits because we’re black and you possibly killed our grandparents two centuries ago!
Were we (the Government) to introduce means testing for ALL aboriginals before handing out funding willy-nilly, you’d inevitably hear the cries of outrage from Roebourne to Redfern.
November 21st, 2010 at 11:05 pm Caffeinated SentryGnome(Quote)
the problem is if you remove the benefits for well off families, it will give them a reason to not become well off. they will be better off doing nothing.
November 23rd, 2010 at 2:36 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
@Jackie
Exactly. As long as keep keep treating Australians differently based on the color of their skin how can we as a country attempt to combat racial discrimination. As long as racial discrimination is blatantly occurring at a government level it’s not going anywhere.
All you wind up with is one side of the fence who believe their racially entitled to everything and the other side of the fence who are bitter about racial inequality.
Oh and the irony of this reverse racial inequality is certainly not lost on me either.
‘Hey you guys treated us like second class citizens. Now we’re disadvantaged!’
‘Oh I know, let’s fix it by treating everyone else like second class citizens. That’ll work!’
@Rick
I didn’t steal anyone’s land and I’ve certainly don’t have a guilty conscience.
And even if I did, exactly how long is this ‘debt’ supposed to be paid off over? Two hundred years? Three hundred years…?
Financially the Aboriginals are well infront, the only people who’ve come out shortchanged from the debt repayment are non-Aboriginal Australians.
@Caffeinated Sentry Gnome
This is where balancing the economy comes into it. Pander to the poor and there’s no incentive to work hard but at the same time pandering to the rich screws the majority.
Balance has to be struck and handing out welfare to everyone isn’t even remotely balance, let alone when you’re basing the amount of welfare based on race.
There has to be incentive enough to work hard and enough welfare for poor people to help them get by, but by no means should it be enough for them to sit comfortably idle.
If this means living without luxuries and eating budget food then so be it. Nobody said being poor or disadvantaged was supposed to be glamorous. Where this idea of being on welfare means it has to be enough for you to compete with working people came from I have no idea.
November 24th, 2010 at 8:01 pm Caffeinated SentryGnome(Quote)
Indeed welfare should be enough to keep you alive and in your home. If you get anymore than that you will have any incentive to get a job.
November 24th, 2010 at 9:06 pm Rick(Quote)
@oz
Perhaps until fair compensation and reparations are paid.
In my opinion that hasn’t yet happened yet and could well be next impossible to accomplish. That’s no reason to stop trying. It’s only been around 40 years or so since we took the Aboriginal People out of the Flora and Fauna Act, officially recognised them as people, gave them a vote etc.
Until 1990 odd there were still land “owners” who held a valid licence to shoot and kill Aboriginal people. These were issued for a very modest price from our Police stations to just about any redneck arsehole.
It is a fact that an elderly farmer did murder some Aboriginal people, or person, I forget the precise details, during the 90′s and when the police charged him he produced his valid licence and the charges were dropped. OK the licence was then cancelled, and searches were performed to find and cancel any other remaining licences, but hey, that was next to yesterday.
November 25th, 2010 at 12:52 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Sure it is, especially if the money could be better spent elsewhere. The current generation of Aboriginals were born into the tail end of disadvantage and the next will have had the same opportunities and priviledges (if not more in the form of additional welfare) as the rest of us.
If the parents choose to live in crap coniditions in remote communities and continue their decrepid way of life why the flying fuck should the taxpayer have to foot the bill?
And even if the kids are born into their parents horrendous lifestyle choices, plenty of immigrants have made it to Australia with not much and carved out a life for themselves. Why can’t Aboriginals?
November 25th, 2010 at 1:47 am ausGeoff(Quote)
Sorry Rick, but this is a complete load of unsubstantiated rubbish!
I’d be interested if you could provide us one single link to information supporting your outrageous assertion. Do you truly believe that in 1990 we (whites, presumably?) could simply murder an aboriginal person and walk away scot-free? This is one of the silliest things I’ve ever read on this forum.
Likewise, can I ask you to provide any links to this case, or provide any names or locations where you claim this alleged murder occurred. And what do you mean by stating that you “forget the precise details”? How convenient! And can I ask you also precisely who said “It is a fact” that an “elderly” farmer did murder “some aboriginal people”?
Unless you can provide us a lot more evidence of your claims — other than some hazy memory, or fanciful thinking, or some urban myth, then I can simply dismiss your comments as being totally without value in this discussion.
And I’m fully prepared to stand corrected if you can give me the above info Rick, as I have to admit that my knowledge of Aboriginal affairs isn’t by any means all-encompassing.
I await your response.
November 25th, 2010 at 2:01 pm Rick(Quote)
I can’t, as I’m bound by the official secrets act.
November 25th, 2010 at 2:09 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Australia doesn’t have an official secrets act;
What do Aboriginal deaths have to do with national security or the proper running of government?
April 7th, 2011 at 9:22 pm kookoonutz(Quote)
Ok soapy……you are ignorant and unwilling to learn anything. I too accidently found this site and I am so shocked to see your ignorance when educated people have tried time and time again to explain basic principles to you.
Terra nullius is a Latin expression deriving from Roman law meaning “land belonging to no one” (or “no man’s land”), [1] which is used in international law to describe territory which has never been subject to the sovereignty of any state, or over which any prior sovereign has expressly or implicitly relinquished sovereignty.
Sovereignty over territory which is terra nullius may be acquired through occupation,[2] though in some cases doing so would violate an international law or treaty.
In other countries, treaty’s were signed and often broken but still there were treaty’s
The fact the Land was Treea
You have no idea what you are talking about…!!! It’s called self determination…which does NOT exist in any government policy simply because the governments have always and will always want control
The Universities are FULL of Aboriginal people making careers by becoming Teachers, Lawyers, Doctors etc. The ones teaching them are ABORIGINAL people…omg noooo…you just look at the negitive and the positive swims right past you
again….how ignorant are you….agriculture was at a level of technology that still does not exist today in any western culture…But hey…Look at the Inca’s they are still existing the exact same way….!!
Noooo again….people you don’t agree with are a lot more educated and aware than you ever want to be. you were given the oppurtunity but you have refused both times. what are you afraid of?
April 8th, 2011 at 1:19 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
I’m sorry but I couldn’t actually see any point there to respond to. I’m assuming you were so busy copypasting Wikipedia trying to look all intelligent that you forgot to include one.
How can be called self determination when the lifestyle itself is wholly dependent on government handouts? There’s nothing ‘self’ about that at all.
Proof?
Whilst I have nothing against Aboriginals in university (hell, I wholly endorse it!), the statistics say otherwise.
The report goes onto to cite statistical information that shows virtually zero fluctuations in Aboriginal student enrolments going beyond 2000.
Let me just clarify here. You’re claiming that Aboriginals, who weren’t farmers had an agriculutral level of technology unheard of, even today, in any western culture.
I’m just going to let that one sink in.
Way to marginalise anyone who doesn’t agree with you by labelling them uneducated. Unfortunately it does nothing to further the credibility of your arguments.
Well thanks for the opportunity, but I prefer to stand by my opinions and have provided the reasoning above. My only fear is having an argument with paper thin credibility, and sadly that’s all the failed outback community supporters appear to be offering up.
April 8th, 2011 at 1:31 am ausGeoff(Quote)
I think it’s far more likely that you’re “bound” by a massive depletion of brain cells Rick. The only “secret” locked into your brain is how to chew gum and walk at the same time!
April 8th, 2011 at 1:57 am ausGeoff(Quote)
Ha ha haaa…..
Isn’t it simply astounding the number of people who allegedly “accidentally” find your site Oz?
It’s also astounding that these accidental cyberspace tourists inevitably seem to be the haters and the fighters and the philosophical thugs in our society. They invariably have none of their own substantiated opinions, but immediately and primarily rely on crudely cutting and pasting from Wikipedia to open their flimsy arguments.
They simply rely on the efforts that others have put in to define the current state of affairs in our society or our history, without doing any of the hard yards themselves.
As far as I’m concerned, anybody who lazily cuts ‘n’ pastes verbatim from Wikipedia simply isn’t worth arguing with.
April 8th, 2011 at 12:31 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
How do you accidentally find a site anyway?
It’s not like I’m out there sydnicating articles with misleading keyword links for people to click on. If you want to find anything on this blog you have to search for it.
April 8th, 2011 at 8:49 pm kookoonutz(Quote)
Now this is hypocritical. You really are blowing wind instead of words. it states that this country was declared for the king of england under a lie. that is a historical fact no matter what colour you are.
Nothing about self determination?? thats the point mr ignorant…the government will not put it in ANY policy because it gives Aboriginal people back their power. You really dont know much.
Proof…..Come to Newcastle University. Pop into Wollotuka and see all the physio therapists, Doctors, Law student, professors, Directors, teachers, double degree students, I graduated last year with 14 other Aboriginal Students and 3 of them are being awarded an academic achievement from the University for the High Distinction Marks.
They do not get any special privilage than anyone else…infact one mother gets $10 less then her counterpart yet she has 1 more child.
Go see for yourself.
Yes I am. Farming does not solely mean crops that you sow. look it up…I could use wikapedia again, cos thats all i think you are capable of, especially when you cant find real statistics.
Captain Cook actually was the one that made the statement about Aboriginal people and their farming methods. Do an Aboriginal History class, you may be surprised how much you know is extremely little and how racist, not smart, you actually look.
I’m just going to let that one sink in.
As I said up the top….hyocritical
and outback community? what is that supposed to mean? you as a urban dweller is way more intelligent? hmmm ozone layer mean anything to you? its the cities and their industrial business that has done that,
April 8th, 2011 at 11:59 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
I don’t recall seeing that mentioned anywhere in your initial reply. And if we are to introduce it into the discussion, I certainly don’t recognise an Aboriginal ‘state’, do you?
Doubt the British or anyone else at the time did either.
The power to do what? What is stopping remote Aboriginal communities from not chasing their welfare checks and going back to their treasured nomadic lifestyles?
Nothing.
Why does the government have to do anything?
In all honesty I’m glad to hear there are Aboriginals making something of themselves at your university, truly I am. But one university campus is simply not representitive of a nation.
I too went to university and I despite there being thousands on campus don’t even recall ever seeing an Aborignal (I’m aware I probably saw a few 1/256th or 1/125th white looking people who may or may not have been Aboriginal, but you know what I mean).
One university is a start but as a whole Aboriginals have a long way to go in encourage academic prosperity amongst themselves.
What’s a more accurate look at Aboriginal enrolment, statistical data for the country or the statistical data of one university campus?
So today we have nothing more technologically capable than burning stuff to fertalize the soil…
…rightio chief.
(the onus is on you here to provide superior examples of Aboriginal agricultural technology… not for me to do your homework for you).
And how long ago did Captain Cook exist? Back in the 1700′s Aboriginal agriculture might have been noteable but to suggest it’s somehow superior to today’s modern methods is laughable.
How so? I haven’t called you any petty names or attacked your education yet you’ve resorted to doing so on numerous occasions.
Try those camps around Alice Springs for starters. Y’know, the ones where children get raped and alcohol and drug abuse fuel daily free for alls.
Then there are the remote communities in Queensland and lets not forget northern Western Australia either…
Wouldn’t say intelligent but more educated? Sure.
Bit hard to get an education when you choose to live in the middle of nowhere.
April 9th, 2011 at 6:24 am ausGeoff(Quote)
You really are full of shit aren’t you…
I quote verbatim from a site about the history of the Australian Aboriginal written by an Aboriginal:
Facts and statistics about Indigenous education
One of the features of Aboriginal Australia that has been wondered about is that for the whole of their presence in Australia, probably more than 60,000 years, the inhabitants never adopted agriculture or domestication of animals, remaining one of the few places in the world sticking with their traditional hunter-gatherer way of life.
And the bullshit still flows…
I quote statistics from Monash University in Melbourne:
Educational achievement 2001:
The proportion of Indigenous people over 15 years who had completed Year 12 was 25% in major cities and 8% in remote areas compared with 46% and 35% respectively for non-Indigenous people.
School retention 2002:
38% of Indigenous students continued to Year 12 compared with 76% of non-Indigenous students.
Higher education 2001:
5% of Indigenous people aged between 18 and 24 were attending university compared with 23% of non-Indigenous people. The number of Indigenous people aged 15-19 who were attending an educational institution in 2001 was around 19500 compared with around 900000 non-Indigenous people of the same age.
Expenditure on Indigenous education:
Public expenditure on education for Indigenous people is 18% higher per capita than for non-Indigenous people aged 3-24 years.
I’m seriously starting to think that kookoonutz is just pulling his “factoids” out of thin air. Or more likely from some place the sun don’t shine.
April 9th, 2011 at 9:05 am kookoonutz(Quote)
I see that you think you have an answer for everything.
I am just going to say that you are a very ignorant person. I think maybe you have been brainwashed by the media far far too much.
the NTI was as a mask for the mining up there and only 7 children were abused and they were abused by people from other communities…by the way, they were white people.
yes drugs, petrol and grog is rife there but it is just as bad in white communities all over australia with the inclusion of glue.
its amazing how people only see what they dont like.
I dont even want to go on you dont want to see what the truth is.
April 9th, 2011 at 12:11 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Yes funny that. It’s called knowing the topic your discussing and not having to rely on anecdotal flowery evidence to back up your claims.
What, have you run out of names to call me?
Nope, I see not.
The supressed Bath Report disagrees with you. Then there were the horrific stories coming out of Tennant Creek…
God knows how many unreported stories occur daily all over these remote communities.
Way to simply the entire Australian population down to white and black.
‘If you don’t agree with me you’re uneducated and ignorant! If you don’t live in an Aboriginal community you’re white!’
Drug abuse is at plague proportion in Aboriginal remote communities, I don’t know of any greater Australian communities (white as you put it or otherwise) where this is the case.
I’ll leave you in your imaginary dreamland then. Meanwhile, back in reality…
April 9th, 2011 at 6:54 pm kookoonutz(Quote)
Which was agriculture….you claim that Aboriginal people are nomadic, in their own nation they were and they moved on, let things grow back and came back again….hello, agriculture….they didnt sow seeds and harvest the way western europeans did…thats a fact….!!!
you can think what you want…I am not, never have and never will claim that ALL Aboriginals are getting educated…I am saying however, that there is more more and more going to get educated…to help their own people…and not dribs and drabs…as you would like people to believe.
Drug abuse is bad in remote communities I am not denying that…however, I am denying the stats of the NTI…they are the governments stats so that they can take the mines over….and back to reality….if where you live is that place, then i will stay in my so called dreamland. I know the truth, i live with it…!!
My name is bla bla and I am a proud Kamilaroi woman. I am probably the poorest Aboriginal I know and the most uneducated. I know the stats and i know they are not good but i also know that all you are spilling is myths.
You believe the media when you want to and if it was about you i bet you would look deeper for the truth…well with Aboriginal culture, the truth is not that deep….you would probably call refugees ‘boat people’ and think they have taken all the jobs and homes and graves etc….!!
April 9th, 2011 at 7:23 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
No it isn’t.
Letting nature do it’s thing is not agriculture.
He isn’t thinking what he wants, he’s quoting legitimate statistical data. You on the other hand are making claims that go against recorded stagnant or negative trends in Aboriginal enrolments.
Yes, yes the world is out to get the Aboriginals. And take the mines over from who? Private enterprise? I’ve never heard of drug abusing remote Aboriginals communties owning mines. What mines do they own?
By your own admission you attended university and graduated. Mate, if you’re the poorest and uneducated aboriginal you know then you really are living in a romanticised fairy land.
Best of luck with that.
April 9th, 2011 at 7:35 pm kookoonutz(Quote)
Never once have I said that I graduated. please show me where i said I graduated? I am in my 1st year. I could be only 18 for all you know. so stop assuming. you want facts but your full of assumptions….!!
Yes he is quoting 10yr old stats…that counts aye….!! and that was more likely because he did a quick research…!! very quick obviously.
……Mr Lee, the sole member of the Djok clan and senior custodian of the land known as Koongarra, could have become one of Australia’s richest men if he had allowed the French energy giant Areva to extract 14,000 tonnes of uranium from its mineral lease in the area…….http://www.theage.com.au/national/land-of-riches-given-over-to-kakadu-20100528-wlkk.html
by the way…this was last year not the turn of the century
April 9th, 2011 at 7:45 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Uh, you said it right here.
As for ausgeoff’s stats, the stats I quoted went into the mid 2000s and showed no signs of Aboriginal enrolments increasing, infact the paper was written to highlight this fact and criticise the government over it.
Meanwhile all you’ve provided is anecdotal evidence from one year of graduates at one university which now you’re claiming you didn’t graduate from, despite having claimed so previously.
Isn’t it fun getting caught up in your own lies?
So one guy being the custodian of some land suddenly implicates the entire Northern Territory populations of Aboriginals in some giant conspiracy theory orchestrated by the government?
I’d wager this Lee fellow isn’t living in a remote Aboriginal community too. Infact he’s probably affected by the NTI as much as you and I are.
But please, continue to carry on like any attempt to stop the entire Aboriginals from destroying themselves is somehow related to seizing one person’s land.
April 9th, 2011 at 8:04 pm kookoonutz(Quote)
oops sorry I graduated from TAFE and Open foundation…!! equivalent to y12
April 9th, 2011 at 10:07 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
Sorry… you’re now just playing with semantics…
One doesn’t “graduate” after successfully completing Year 12 — technically it’s called “matriculation” which simply means that you’ve gained the right of entry to a University. Using Australian terminology (and not American) one can only “graduate” after being awarded a first degree from a university.
You’ve deliberately misled us into believing you were a university graduate, and utilised that misleading assertion with your “facts” about Aboriginal university students — from an alleged personal perspective — (which is now exposed as being incorrect). In actuality, it now appears that you have no more verified statistics than the ones I quoted from Monash University (and, incidentally, that were not “massaged” by the media, as you repeatedly claim).
You then attempt a weak defence of your misrepresentation in support of your “facts”, with a simple — and disingenuous — “oops, sorry“.
May I ask how many other convenient embellishments or exaggerations have you fabricated in your prior postings? Hmmm…
April 10th, 2011 at 6:23 pm kookoonutz(Quote)
http://yindjibarndi.org.au/yindjibarndi/?p=449
April 11th, 2011 at 1:12 am ausGeoff(Quote)
I quote from a report of 6 April 2011:
Andrew ‘Twiggy’ Forrest remains locked in a battle with a Western Australian Aboriginal community over mining on traditional land.
The Karijini traditional land of the Yindjibarndi people has red rocks heavy with iron ore, and Fortescue Metals has a lease which enables it to mine it as the $5 billion Solomon Hub project, expected to produce 60 million tonnes of ore per year initially.
The Yindjibarndi people have rejected a $10 million per year compensation offer from Forrest’s company, asking for four times that amount, in keeping they say, with compensation being offered by other big mining companies in the Pilbara.
Tribal elder Michael Woodley says that their request for a higher amount of compensation is justified because the project will not only damage their land and religious sites, but also the people themselves.
“Ceremony, kinship and tribal law are the heart and soul of our life,” he said.
“They connect us to the beginning of the world.”
So. Apparently the Yindjibarndi will sell their land and their souls for $40 million quite happily, but not it seems for a “mere” $10 million. No surprises there! It simply reiterates what we’ve known for years, particularly in Western Australia, that if the price is right, Aboriginals will sell you any of “their” lands you fancy — sacred or not. Hypocrisy anyone?
Incidentally, the Yindjibarndi population is less than 1,000 people. Do they — as such a tiny minority group — have the “right” to put at risk an export dollar return to Australia of more than $1 billion per year?
Of course not.
April 12th, 2011 at 12:50 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
@kookoonutz
From the article you linked to;
Why is getting a job threatening ‘indigenous culture’?
This is a massive problem if most of the Aboriginal community see getting employment as a threat to their culture. No wonder they contribute nothing to society.
And what are those terms?
‘provide us with enough annual compensation so we never have to worry about work again, or the price of alcohol and drugs.’
I wouldn’t want to deal with them either.
April 12th, 2011 at 1:09 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
This is an easy one Oz…
If they have to work, they won’t be able to lie around in the sun in public parks all day, sucking on tinnies and smoking cigarettes scrounged off passersby. I think that’s the “culture” we’re all referring to isn’t it?
And let’s face it, with the $40,000 every one of these slackers would like — each and every year — from Fortescue, they’d be able to continue with this type of Aboriginal “culture” forever. Well, that’s if they didn’t all depart this mortal coil prematurely from cirrhosis of the liver LOL.
April 12th, 2011 at 8:53 pm kookoonutz(Quote)
Myths……Thats all you talk…here are some facts…!!
Alcohol abuse is a thread throughout Australian colonial history and remains a problem for many communities, black and white. But it is the notion of the ‘drunken black’ that remains one of the most pervasive stereotypes of Indigenous Australians.
As a proportion of each population, more Indigenous (37%) than non-Indigenous (22%) people do not drink alcohol at all. Though it has been found that those Indigenous people who do drink, do so in more dangerous quantities than non-Indigenous Australians. Lending weight to the perception of high levels of Indigenous alcohol use is the fact that Indigenous social drinking, unlike non-Indigenous drinking, is also often highly visible, conducted in public places like parks.
The popular belief that Indigenous people are genetically unable to tolerate alcohol because they did not drink until Europeans settlement is another myth. Indigenous people have long fermented drinks into alcohol from a range of sources such as the sap of some gum trees, bauhinia flowers and wild honey, banksia cones, pandanus plants and in the Torres Strait, the juice of coconut tree buds.
The Indigenous jobless rate has fallen from 18.3 per cent in 2002, when the bureau of statistics first began its survey, to 14.3 per cent in 2006. The figures also show that, despite common stereotypes, the proportion of the Indigenous community working or looking for work is not much different to the national average. Between 1994 and 2002, there was an increase in the number of employed Indigenous people aged 15 years or over (from 36% to 46%). There was an increase in both mainstream and Community Development Employment Project scheme (CDEP) employment.
Patterns of employment were different between remote and non-remote areas, with the majority of Indigenous people in remote areas having jobs with the CDEP scheme (63%). In non-remote areas 90% of employed Indigenous people had jobs in mainstream employment.
The myth that Indigenous people are lazy and don’t want to work may arise in part from a lack of awareness of the factors contributing to high levels of unemployment. For example, in remote Aboriginal communities the unemployment rate is often a reflection of the low labour market, as well as the limited educational and training opportunities combined with lingering prejudice among non-Aboriginal employers. As Reconciliation Australia’s Fred Chaney states: ‘It’s time we stopped complaining about people not joining the real economy if we don’t extend to their towns the real jobs paid for by government everywhere else.’
In 1992, when the High Court handed down its decision in Mabo, for the first time, Australian law recognised Indigenous people’s connection with and rights over land. This is known legally as native title. The decision overturned the concept of terra nullius which asserted that before European settlement, the land of Australia belonged to no-one.
Following the Mabo verdict, there was a barrage of misinformation spread by opponents of the decision declaring that ‘Australians were going to lose their backyards’. Sadly, despite 15 years of Native Title decisions proving otherwise, this myth lingers today.
Native title has no bearing on existing property rights because claimants can only assert their title over publicly owned land, called Crown land. Any house (including its backyard) is considered private property and therefore extinguishes native title.
One of the most prevalent media images of Indigenous communities shows dilapidated, poorly maintained houses. Unfortunately, this is a reality, but it has given rise to the myth that Indigenous people purposely trash their own homes.
Data collected over a long period by healthabitat shows the majority of all repair works (70%) to houses in Indigenous communities are needed because of lack of routine maintenance of public housing by government – less than 3% arose because of vandalism, intentional damage or misuse.28 Other major causes include the chronic shortage of housing and lack of consultation with communities about their needs.
The high cost of maintenance in remote areas and the harsh climates in which homes are built are also contributing factors
Despite the effort and commitment of most Indigenous Australians to overcome problems confronting their communities, there is a pervasive myth of Indigenous passivity.
Since settlement, Indigenous leaders and communities fought long and hard for citizenship rights, land rights and the right to be counted in the census of the population; rights that non-Indigenous people take for granted.
A recent example of communities fighting to overcome their problems is the strong leadership of the Pitjantjatjara communities of South Australia in combating the scourge of petrol sniffing. As Social Justice Commissioner Tom Calma recalls: ‘they were prepared to own the problem of petrol sniffing in their community – they simply needed help in dealing with the outside forces that were causing it…they almost begged for a ban on sniffable fuel – at a time when all governments thought that would either be too hard or too expensive. But the community knew what it needed.’
This is one of the many instances of community leadership that has triumphed over a specific problem facing a specific community.
“Overcoming Indigenous disadvantage comes at a price but let’s stop pretending that there’s ever been an investment in Indigenous Australia based on need, let alone on a vision of success.”
Professor Mick Dodson
Most Australians have heard the myth about “too much money is thrown at Indigenous affairs”. The reality is that Indigenous-specific funding represented 1.58% of total Australian Government spending in 2006-2007.31 As a percentage of GDP, Indigenous-specific spending is about a third of one percentage point,32 which is about the same amount as Australia spends on aid to foreign countries.
In the 2007 federal budget, $748.3 million33 is the identifiable amount being spent on Indigenous affairs – based on an Indigenous population of around 500,00034 this calculates to $1500 per person.
Professional organisations including the Australian Medical Association, the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission and Indigenous organisations point out that if Australia is serious about closing the gap in life expectancy between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians a lot more money is needed. But even more important than that, the money needs to be spent properly with less of it channelled into expensive, inefficient bureaucracy.
The recent Northern Territory Little Children are Sacred Report debunked this myth noting, ‘the media has highlighted a few cases where sexual abuse of a child has occurred in the context of an Aboriginal traditional marriage in the Northern Territory’.42 The Inquiry did not come across any evidence to show that children were being regularly abused within, and as a result of, traditional marriage practices. This was despite the fact that in many places such practices still existed.
These practices do not exist to provide young women for the sexual gratification of old men, but are a part of a complex system that has had many practical aspects. These include preventing inter-family marriage, and providing a system of custodianship to land, information and ceremonies.
Self-determination is the principal right identified in the two major international human rights charters. Self-determination is the ability of peoples to determine their own future and is gauged by the amount that people feel they have control over the political processes that affect them. There was a brief period that Indigenous affairs in Australia had the title of ‘self-determination’ but has since been officially abandoned by the Australian Government.
Throughout the administrative history of Indigenous affairs, even during the so-called period of ‘self-determination’, the approach has been one of ‘top-down’ decision making where governments have controlled the major actions to be taken. Under this approach, Indigenous people are not able to influence the processes of these decisions, nor are they encouraged to ‘own’ the problems and solutions that affect them.
Partnerships between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians are at the heart of countless success stories and they often start small. As Paul Kelly and Kev Carmody tell us from little things, big things grow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxM2zvcU6-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGzoGhfM24A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYezc4hIXaQ
The male singer is Joel (MC Weno)a teacher who has gone on in his studies and is becoming a doctor and still tours Australia with his music as well as raise 2 children with his loving and supportive wife. Naomi (MC Nay) was one half of Australia’s sexiest R&B Pop sensation ‘Shakaya’. Signed to a major label at the age of 16, she quickly climbed the ARIA charts and stage, with platinum selling singles and album.
April 13th, 2011 at 4:02 am ausGeoff(Quote)
Uh… rather than copying and pasting all that stuff, wouldn’t it have been easier to just give us the link to the original?
http://www.reconciliation.org.au/
April 13th, 2011 at 1:10 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Once again, how racist is it to simply divide Australian communities into black and white. Furthermore this does not change the fact that there are Aboriginal communities out there whose residents existance depends on government handouts and their only goal in life is to get plastered daily.
Nor does it change the fact that this is apparently the ‘Aboriginal culture’ you previously referenced that is under threat.
Oh please, social drinking my arse. The only time I’ve ever seen Aboriginals drinking in public they’ve always been hammered (as evidenced by the dozens of bottles lying around).
And I thought it was illegal to consume alcohol in public places (at least in Victoria).
Glad to hear it, let’s hope this trend continues and some of these remote communities start to shrink into oblivion!
This CDEP program seems to be quoted a lot though, and from what I can see it’s nothing more than Aboriginal ‘work for the dole’. I hope the above statistics aren’t including work for the dole people as employed.
So get off your arses and move to where the jobs are. This is not an excuse.
Centrelink will punish me for moving and living in an area with no job prospects, why on Earth can Aboriginals use this same fact as an excuse?
Anyone who lives there or has seen this so called biased footage can full well see the damage goes far beyond ‘routine maintenance’. Walls don’t suddenly develop gaping holes, paint strips itself and windows go missing fall out just because of routine maintenance.
So move. Why live in a harsh climate where there’s no job opportunities? And if you want to live there, why should taxpayers foot the bill?
This is hypocrisy of the finest order. The same people that would call for a ban on sniffable petrol are the same that cry blue bloody murder of the banning of alcohol in the intervention.
You can’t have it both ways and neither it seems addresses the actual problem of substance abuse. As is the problem in Alice Springs now, wouldn’t they just go and sniff petrol elsewhere?
Now obviously this is a load of shit. How many Aboriginals are getting by on $1500 a year? Why leave out one of the largest factors in Aboriginal spending, welfare and all the associated payments/costs?
This report seemingly only dealt with traditional marriage. The Bath report covers a far greater scope and is subsequently much more damning in its assesment.
So much so that the NT government supressed it for two years because the findings were so abhorrent.
This concept might work when Aboriginals realise their future is the future of Australia. We are one country and as long as they wish to marginalise themselves it’s no wonder they feel displaced.
They have the same access as the rest of Australia in terms of political input into their future. Just because Government disagrees with you over something does not mean they are racist or discriminatory.
The rest of Australia puts up with decisions that don’t go every individual’s way all of the time, it’s called living in a modern society.
Pushing for a seperate government process for your people isn’t going to happen. Join the rest of the country and participate like the rest of us.
Welcome to the greater Australia.
April 13th, 2011 at 6:54 pm kookoonutz(Quote)
Just what I thought. Full of Shit and Ignorant
April 13th, 2011 at 7:11 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Wonderful contribution to the discussion there kookoonutz. Your solid reasoning and presentation of your arguments really solidify your expertise on the subject.
What happened, did you run out of other people’s opinions to copy and paste?
April 13th, 2011 at 7:23 pm kookoonutz(Quote)
No, I can go on forever. But however it is your contribution that is boring me. You do not want knowledge or facts, you want people of no substance to agree with everything you say. Typical ignorant attitude.
We had a discussion on this page today, very sad actually, the reasons you are so ignorant or should I actually say possible reasons. contradictions were made by the zillions from you and your lack of knowledge is all hiding behind your self worth.
In this discussion there were 30+ students doing media culture and I was the only Aboriginal student and I looked 100% smarter than you and more informed simply by copying and pasting. So Yep…I have run out of peoples “FACTS” to copy and paste on this worthless page
April 13th, 2011 at 7:32 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Well I’m glad this page made for a lively discussion in your ivory towers.
I’m sure it was a nutcracker discussion too, what with your complete inability to personally challenge any of the viewpoints put towards you, instead throwing up your hands and screaming ignorance or copy and pasting from third party sources offering little context or commentary of your own.
Everybody knows the true sign of being knowledgable on a subject is the measure of your ability to copy and paste information.
Meanwhile in the real world…
April 13th, 2011 at 7:38 pm kookoonutz(Quote)
now this is a true laugh. I do not need to be challenged on any viewpoints put across by someone like you. You are so beneath me.
Think what you want, I really do not care. I supplied everything you needed to know in my own words or others and you still complain. You need your soapbox so I let you be with it….!!
April 13th, 2011 at 7:44 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Yes, because you’re so much better then the rest of us. That ivory tower sounds even more higher than I first thought.
I replied to everything you posted that I disagreed with.
Your response? Puerile ad-hominem attacks.
I’m glad you feel better about yourself and championed your cause in a one sided discussion where apparently I looked quite stupid without any form of representation. Way to further the cause and plight of Aboriginals everywhere.
April 13th, 2011 at 7:49 pm kookoonutz(Quote)
Better than the rest of us?? no mate, just you…and that’s EXACTLY what I said….YOU….!! I just think it is so funny how you twist words to suit yourself. But hey, that’s exactly how ignorant people react.
Whatever….!!
My cause? What exactly s my cause?
April 13th, 2011 at 7:55 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Yes because I’m sure this is the first time someone has challenged your viewpoints and you’ve just run around screaming arrogant ignorance and claimed to be above them. Definitely the first.
Evidently sitting around a classroom having discussions about how smart you are and patting yourself on the back about it.
April 13th, 2011 at 8:03 pm kookoonutz(Quote)
oh my god….and you constantly try to belittle me. far out. you really need to take a look in the mirror and it doesn’t have to be long and hard. it will only last a few seconds because you will despise what you see…..How pathetic are you getting now….??
Grow up little girl….!!!
April 13th, 2011 at 8:57 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
I’ve got some bad news for you kookoonutz…
Tomorrow morning when we both awaken, I’ll be a white man, but you’ll still be a black fellah.
Think about it.
April 13th, 2011 at 9:35 pm kookoonutz(Quote)
I have been trying to answer this one since I got the notification but ya know what bud…I couldnt stop laughing….!!
I near fell off my chair….I certainly hope when i wake up I am still a blackfella….!!
Hey, when I recover from my uncontrollable laughter…I will return…!!
April 13th, 2011 at 10:13 pm kookoonutz(Quote)
oh…and whats with the ‘h’ on fella? gubba
April 14th, 2011 at 5:14 am ausGeoff(Quote)
— And that’s precisely why your lot will never amount to anything in life my friend.
You should be hoping upon hope to wake up as a white man.
LOL.
April 14th, 2011 at 6:17 am kookoonutz(Quote)
I beg to differ….old mate
April 22nd, 2011 at 11:30 am kookoonutz(Quote)
Why “our Lot” will never amount to anything.
Bandler, Dr Faith
Blair, Harold
Bennelong
Bonner, Neville
Burnum Burnum
Cooper, William
Dodson, Mick
Dodson, Patrick
Dingo, Ernie
Freeman, Cathy
Goodes, Adam
Goolagong-Cawley, Yvonne
Gulpilil, David
Mabo, Eddie
Marshall, Benji
Mokare
Monks, Rosie Kunoth
Morgan, Sally
Namatjira, Albert
Nicholls, Sir Doug
Noonuccal, Oodgeroo/Kath Walker
North, Jade
O’Shane, Pat
Page, Stephen
Pearson, Noel
Pemulwuy
Perkins, Charles
Ridgeway, Aden
Saunders, Captain Reginald
Smith, Shirley
Truganini
Unaipon, David
Yagan
Yindi, Yothu
Yunupingu, Mandaway
And there is more…but Black fella’s will never amount to anything aye….!!!
April 22nd, 2011 at 11:17 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
Ha ha haaa… I’ll certainly give you top marks for determination kookoonutz!
Is this listing really the best you can come up with after all your (apparent) research? A couple of dozen Aboriginal “names” out of 22 million people LOL. And half of them are simply sportspeople or TV personalities or musos. Oh dear.
I’ll grant you Pastor Doug Nicholls, Neville Bonner, Charles Perkins and maybe Aden Ridgeway as having contributed to the overarching advancement of Australia’s social — and contemporary Aboriginal — issues particularly. Reg Saunders, a captain in our Army; is that really such a big deal? And I do acknowledge that the articulate and urbane David Unaipon was certainly a genius ahead of his time, but as for the rest?
Football players, musicians, actors and people dead a century? Where’s the Nobel Prize-winning biologists, physicists, astronomers, biochemists, zoologists, and other researchers?
I realise that you’re grasping at straws here to “prove” your point, but you’ll need to do far, far better than this to establish that your lot have really, truly had any impact whatsoever on Australia’s socio-economic development or technical and industrial advancement since federation.
September 16th, 2011 at 1:01 am Almica(Quote)
People shouldn;t use their determination as arrogance. If you found some inspiring aboriginals, good. But don’t be blind to the facts, and shove the truth under the rug about whats going on in reality, in the majority.
Honestly, with all the platforms they get I EXPECT abos to use them. I mean you have a fuck load of privileges so why not use them?
Also I wonder how many of those successful stories were part of a white household. Really, I do. I bet they were part of the “saved generation”. I can see pretty much all of them are at least half castes, and some look almost all white.
I have some irish heritage, and swedish, but I don’t call myself Irish or Swedish, or russian just cause an ancestor was.
In fact my culture has been strpped from me too. boo fucking hoo. I don’t listen to irish music, or dress in russian clothes or eat borsche all day. I make my own life, I carve out my own ways.
Do you see any foriegner clinging to tradtions? No, asian, africans, and us ‘europeans’ dress in the same clothes, I listen to Hip hop even though im “white” and I love anime and I speak Japanese and eat sushi everyday. Its called globalisation. Its called being CULTURED. being accepting of others. Limiting yourself to some outdated racist way isnt cool.
Many Irish orthodox are racists, and its stupid. I do not follow that “tradition” cause some of the “elders” do. So why do the aboriginals and the bleeding hearts say “Oh they will lose their culture!!” WHO here hasnt lost their fucking culture?
WHAT CULTURE? since when is culture so important, more important than leading a healthy and decent life?!?!?! I can’t even adopt an aboriginal child to take care of her, unless I am immersed in their “culture”. Why? Should my mum be persecuted for not teaching me about Russia? HYPOCRITICAL AND BACKWARDS all of you bleeding hearts here. Learn to think critically and grow the fuck up.
Btw, the aboriginals dont even know shit about their own culture. They dont get taught anything by their parents. I lived 3 doors down from a family of 20 of them. 20, im not lying. Yes they had a free house and tormented the neighbourhood, and had a drug lab there.
They would break into our house and steal my toys, and watch my through the windows when I was in my room getting changed. I would scream as I saw about 12 faces peaking over the fence, staring and smiling. It was fucking creepy. They have done this since I was a little girl, and when I was a teenager.
Oneday I got a spray tan and they asked me if I was “part abo” hahaha! How judgemental.
I have blonde hair and blue eyes and they thought I was black cause of my fake tan, how superficial. They were cute kids but as they got older they got really nasty. They were urban too, not like the murdering ones in the deserted areas.
Also a gang of bikies lived down the road from us so they patrolled the areas and the abos always left the street to do robberies. They told me this.
I actually felt safe with the bikies around. It felt like I was in gangs of new york or something, with our own laws. how primitive. It shouldnt be like this.
This blog is awesome, and the the guys here are so smart I wish I knew them personally. Finally some intelligence.
January 26th, 2012 at 12:14 am hohum(Quote)
Why are we still having these conversations. Why can’t people accept things and move on. I am all for acknowledgement of what happened in the past. I think it should be taught in schools. However, history is full of this stuff and people have been invaded and dominated since the beginning of time.
My ancestors were treated unfairly. However, that was then and I refuse to let that follow me around for the rest of eternity. What people don’t realise is that if you cannot get over the past, you cannot change the future.
Past resentments will haunt you and set you back forever, ensuring that you will never get out of the cycle of hatred, self-pity and self-destruction.
Forgiveness is the first step towards setting yourself free. I personally would like to offer my condolences for the past (not apologies since I was not personally responsible for the atrocities). Now the ball is in your court. You are the master of your own destiny…
January 26th, 2012 at 12:36 am hohum(Quote)
By the way, I too am angry at the way our government mismanages the environment. However, I cannot ask for compensation.
I console myself with the fact that all the other governments of the world are fucking up just as badly. The whole world is screwed but at least Australia is safe (for now). We enjoy a better life than most — even the aboriginals.
Imagine if muslims or the chinese had been the ones to settle Australia. Then you’d really be up shit creek. That’s gonna happen though anyway, eventually. Whichever one takes over first we will either be forced to convert to Islam and follow Sharia law, or we will end up working in labour camps under a communist government (no offence to arabs and chinese who don’t like these options either).
Anyway, it would only have been a matter of time before some-one discovered Australia and invaded it. I wish to god it hadn’t been the british or any other european. I would’ve prefered to live in europe but not now that it’s culture and values have been hijacked by immigrants (yes, just like the europeans did here — please don’t blame me, I think they made a big mistake.
They were greedy and now have got what they deserved. I would never have done what they did or even come here in the first place if I had lived back then).
I agree though with the person who said that aboriginals are no less enarmoured with money than any-one else though. How connected to the land are you if you are willing to make a multi-million dollar settlement? Would you sell your soul as well? Where is the spiritual connection?
I think we have to all be rational and remember that there is good and bad, altruistic and selfish in every race, culture, nationality, religion etc. Not all white people are good and not all white people bad. Nor is any one person all good or all bad.
We are all at varying stages across the spectrum of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ and we all have different concepts of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ — and the same goes for aboriginal people too.
Ultimately all humans are in the same boat so to speak. Finally, I’m sure it wasn’t all fun and games before the invasion. And I’m sure you can find some things to be grateful about as well…
OK. Sermon over. Thank-you for listening and have a great day!(-:
January 26th, 2012 at 12:56 am hohum(Quote)
One last thing. I don’t think immigration is bad and am not totally opposed to it. And I don’t care about skin colour and all that other crap. However, I think people should immigrate to countries with the same general values and beliefs.
If not, the immigrants wanting to go there (if from hugely different cultures) are the ones who need to adapt their thinking — not the other way around!
It is not fair to accept some-ones hospitality and then throw it back at them by foisting your beliefs and life-styles choices on them. It’s a shame the europeans didn’t stay in europe and if I were a non-european living back then I would’ve been really mad at people invading my country.
However, I wasn’t around then, and there is nothing I can do about it. Also, regarding the comment that we didn’t give aboriginals rights until 1967, well I wasn’t even around then, but it would’ve happened sooner or later. If it hadn’t been for my parents generation (and grandparents) you would not have had voting rights even then.
Of course you should’ve had voting rights much earlier, but please don’t blame my parents. It was their generation that wanted to make changes and start treating you people fairly. It will never be fair or equal though until Aboriginals are treated the same as every-one else… in ALL aspects!!!
Equal rights = equal responsibilities. Until then you will never be treated as equals. Please come and join us so we can all live peacefully together. We will forget your crimes and you can forget ours. Ours are greater, sure, but your generation never experienced the brunt of it.
PS I have experienced racism too — been punched in the face and called a FWC with no reason, no provocation. I was sitting at the train station just minding my own business. But I will forgive you for what you did (even though you didn’t do it) if you will forgive for what I did (even though I didn’t do it).
Fair? Hugs all round and truce bro!
January 26th, 2012 at 1:21 am ausGeoff(Quote)
Agree totally…
And this is precisely the outcome of Aboriginal people still choosing to live their hopelessly degraded lifestyle more than 40 years after being granted voting rights.
— And this is also something for aborigines to consider…
Until—and unless—they accept this simple equation, they’re doomed.
January 28th, 2012 at 5:15 pm hohum(Quote)
OK. Lucky last. I have heard indigious people saying (after the tent debacle) that we don’t forget ANZAC day. I agree, we keep commemorating the sacrifices made there for good reason — we would not enjoy the freedom we have today if not for them (and that includes aboriginals as citizens of this country)!
(NB it’s not that I agree with the wars entirely — I think better methods might have been used to prevent things escalating to that point in the first place)
Anyway, the idea is to forgive, not to forget. Do the ANZACs and other Australians insist on hating Germany and all our other [at that time] enemies? No! We have moved on from that — despite the mass slaughter of our troops (many of whom were relatives of those still alive today).
I would suggest having a rememberance day — once a year like ANZAC day — where we remember the atrocities committed by the Europeans towards Aboriginals and celebrate how attitudes have changed since then (and that their culture has survived). That is the way forward.
The aboriginal people can do their part by ensuring that they use the opportunity given them to make their culture flourish in a positive direction. Take the good things from your culture and adopt the good things from western culture.
Unfortunately at the moment, if I were an aborigine, I would not be proud of the Aboriginal ‘culture’ displayed by many of my kinsmen today. I am sure it was never the part of the culture of aborigines from the past to live like pigs and have no respect for themselves of any-one else.
Yes, the tent embassy debacle demonstrated that beyond a doubt!
January 29th, 2012 at 10:04 am ausGeoff(Quote)
At the last federal census, a mere 2.5% of the Australian population identified as “aboriginal”.
The word “identified” is important because according to the definition of aboriginality, anybody can identify themselves as “aboriginal” regardless of their ancestral or cultural background.
In other words, there’s no legal reason that at the last census in 2006 I couldn’t have chosen to identify myself as “aboriginal” even though I have absolutely no aboriginal ancestry. I’m originally of Scottish descent.
This makes even the 2.5% aboriginal population figure suspect.
According to the United Nations Index of Human Development (HDI) 2011 estimates, the aboriginal HDI ranking is 103, whereas the remainder of the Australian population has an HDI of 2 — ahead of the Netherlands and the USA at 3 and 4 receptively. (Thailand also has an HDI of 103 for comparison).
Amongst other things, the HDI ranking measures literacy, education and standards of living.
I rest my case.