ozsoapbox:
This is what happens when you tell parents being fat is an acceptable and healthy lifestyle choice.

At least we won’t have to worry about building new retirement villages for these kids when they’re (not) old! They’ll all be dead by age 35.

Seriously though, I put this down to an unacceptable lack of parental control, and parameters on precisely what their kids are eating, AND kids living indoors in front of X-boxes etc. Junk food + inactivity = juvenile obesity.

So, kids obesity can be laid squarely at the feet of their parents — you can’t blame the kids themselves — they don’t have the alleged(!) powers of logic and sense of responsibility that their parents should have.

And look in any shopping mall: Fat parents and… ta daa… fat kids.

For adults, obesity is totally their own lifestyle “choice” (excepting of course in cases of underlying medical conditions) but please mum and dad, don’t project this attitude onto your kids.

Here’s the thing: the stigma against fat has got nothing to do with health. If it did, there would be rants here against people who go to the beach without sun block.

People going to the beach without sunblock don’t inconvenience me in my day to day life like fat people do. Same deal with alcohol.

No, the stigma of fat is because people don’t like the way they look.

Bingo. That and they are usually annoying.

Since fat people are usually poor people, it’s a way of shaming people for being ugly and poor.

Dunno about poor but definitely ugly. Nobody wants to look at ugly people so I’m sure you can appreciate that.

So when people like you make rants against fat people, you give yourself permission to be nasty by claiming it’s all about health.

I’ve been pretty open about my bias against fat people. Any health issues raised were in response to the fat acceptance mob who are running around delusional that being fat or obese is somehow acceptable and healthy.

Not on my watch fellas.

Funnily enough, nobody ever changed because they were loathed.

You’re going to tell me nobody has ever walked into a gym or taken up excerice because they were sick of the stigma that comes along with being fat?

Please.

The only people who don’t are those who are too lazy to do anything anyway and just use victim syndrome as a convenient justification to mask their own abundant laziness and poor lifestyle choices.

You’re doing it because you’re enjoying being a nasty git.

Damn right. Criticism isn’t an armchair sport.

Note though that this particular article was addressed to the fat acceptance movement, not necessarily fat people themselves.

@ausgeoff

Some of my best friends are fairly overweight (to be polite LOL) and they’re some of the most articulate, intelligent people you could meet.

I wasn’t suggesting otherwise, infact Alexie was the one suggesting fat people were usually poor. Rather my personal beef (fat acceptance rebuttals aside) is the inconvenience fatties cause in day to day life. Hate sharing seats with them, hate being stuck behind them on escalators, hate the smell of them, hate walking down the road behind or towards them…. really there’s just too many things about fat people to hate to list here.

Alexie: Here’s the thing: the stigma against fat has got nothing to do with health.

The latest figures I could find regarding health costs (obesity versus alcohol consumption) to the community (whole of Australia) are:

Approximately $2.4 billion a year goes on the direct medical costs of treating obese and overweight people. The indirect costs – lost work productivity, absenteeism and unemployment – are approximately $9 billion a year, for a total of $11.4 billion a year.

Whereas the National Alcohol Strategy 2006-2011 which was developed as a response to the patterns of high risk alcohol consumption that are prevalent in Australia have estimated that about 3200 people die as a result of excessive alcohol consumption and around 81,000 people are hospitalised annually. The cost to the Australian community of alcohol-related social problems is estimated to be $15.3 billion a year.

Says a lot really.

ozsoapbox: [...] I’m all for maintaining the current stigma against fat people. I just don’t want to have to deal with them in any capacity, professional, social or whatever.

The latest figures (2007-8)I could find for Australians are here: http://mcaf.ee/tqhgo

Finally, it’s also your prerogative not to associate with overweight people in your everyday life, but I’m not convinced that it’s OK to have some sort of personal but very public vendetta against them. Some of my best friends are fairly overweight (to be polite LOL) and they’re some of the most articulate, intelligent people you could meet.

Physical appearances are a very shallow way of assessing someone’s virtue and/or value to society and are pretty meaningless ultimately.

So I’m happy to accept that we’ll just have to agree to disagree. No probs.

No, the stigma of fat is because people don’t like the way they look. Since fat people are usually poor people, it’s a way of shaming people for being ugly and poor. But obviously being vile isn’t something decent people do, so they need an excuse for their behaviour. So when people like you make rants against fat people, you give yourself permission to be nasty by claiming it’s all about health. You present yourself as being malicious in the cause of virtue.

Funnily enough, nobody ever changed because they were loathed. Being the butt of jokes and maliciousness is what makes people get even fatter. As the saying goes, you can’t hate someone for their own good, and making them hate themselves won’t result in some magical beautification change

It’s a free country. Feel free to mock and ridicule anyone you want. Just don’t pretend you’re doing it out of some heartfelt concern for their/society’s well being. You’re doing it because you’re enjoying being a nasty git.

And be aware that when you’re vile, you will be including people in your ridicule who are struggling with the after effects of diseases and medications that are making their lives miserable enough already. Enjoy!

With over 60% of the Australian adult population currently overweight or obese, if the alternative is encouraging and accepting lard arses so that we don’t hurt a few people on medication’s feelings, then I’m all for maintaining the current stigma against fat people. I just don’t want to have to deal with them in any capacity, professional, social or whatever.

@ausgeoff

f so, then you don’t know much about chemotherapeutic drugs, particularly the ones that don’t cause hair loss.

Such as Methotrexate

Ironically I’m on a regular dosage of Methotrexate at the moment (non-cancer related). I have noticed a change in my metabolism whilst I’ve been on it but haven’t ballooned out. Regular excercise on and off the bicycle has taken care of that. I suppose I could have sat at home infront of the tv and watched my stories all day but despite feeling crook some days, maintained a relatively active lifestyle.

Again, for terminal patients they’ve got bigger problems to worry about than being fat and for everybody else, they’ve got something to work towards once they’re better.

As for heart problems, yeah overweight people might have fewer overall heart problems, but not all heart problems are lethal. When it comes to overweight people lethal heart problems are all that matters. Given the link between weight and heart problems (you don’t have to be a doctor to realise that being overweight causes extra long term stress on your heart) arguing otherwise seems a bit pointless.

Kinda like the climate change skeptics, but that’s a different kettle of fish for another day.

ozsoapbox: Uh, people with chemotherapy usually look a bit different to those stuffing their mouths with big macs 24/7 hey?

I can only assume you’re incorrectly associating hair loss with chemotherapy when you say chemo patients look “different”? If so, then you don’t know much about chemotherapeutic drugs, particularly the ones that don’t cause hair loss.

Such as Methotrexate, Carmustine, Procarbazine, Sreptozotocin, or Fludarabine to name just a few.

It’s also well-known that several commonly prescribed antidepressants such as Lexapro, Paxil, Zoloft, Tofranil, or Anafranil cause weight gains in around 25% of patients taking these drugs — due to metabolic disturbances.

And regarding the old BMI myths: Scientists from the Mayo Clinic in Rochester are now questioning the accuracy and usefulness of the BMI.

Reviewing data from 40 studies involving 250,000 people with heart disease, they found that while severely obese patients had a higher risk of death, overweight people had fewer heart problems than those with a normal BMI.

Obviously there’s an important difference between “overweight” and “obese” in this case.

I guess my point is that it’s pretty worthless making rash generalisations about “fat” people without knowing anything about their individual histories. And it’s unfair.

ozsoapbox: Uh, people with chemotherapy usually look a bit different to those stuffing their mouths with big macs 24/7 hey?

Nope. A woman on maintenance for breast cancer, a patient who is taking anti-depressants and someone on Prednisone may present as just another fatty walking down the street.

Who cares? If and when they’re done with their treatment it’s motivation to get back to work maintaining themselves and if it’s terminal, well hey – I’m sure they’ve got better things to worry about than their weight.

Do you know that iatrogenic induced weight can be intractable? That it can actually change your metabolism so that you extract 10-15% more energy from the same food as everybody else?

The point of this is not to say that everyone who’s fat has a medical condition. Obviously that’s not true.

The point is: you can’t tell by looking at someone how they got fat. Which means much of your mockery is directed not, as you think, at fatty mcfats who stuff themselves with burgers, but at people who are ill.

Good one.

You seem to have had some personal experiences with hospital induced obese patients and have managed to project that onto the entire fatty population of Australia.

…good luck with that.

Do you know what people like you to do people like her when you say things like ‘waaah waah waah’ excuses?

Uh, people with chemotherapy usually look a bit different to those stuffing their mouths with big macs 24/7 hey?

And before you say, ‘but that’s only a fraction of overweight people’, I’d like to see your scientific paper.

No scientific paper of course, but how about the majority of the fat population aren’t getting chemotherapy? If you need scientific proof to back that claim up you’re a lost cause.

The fact is, you can’t tell from looking at someone whether they’re fat because of hormone treatments, anti-depressants or cortisone, or fat because they eat too much.

Who cares? If and when they’re done with their treatment it’s motivation to get back to work maintaining themselves and if it’s terminal, well hey – I’m sure they’ve got better things to worry about than their weight.

You seem to have had some personal experiences with hospital induced obese patients and have managed to project that onto the entire fatty population of Australia.

…good luck with that.

I spent all of last year sitting in a chemotherapy outpatients clinic, watching women around me with breast cancer get fatter and fatter, because of the hormones and cortisone they were being treated with. One woman put on 20 kilos in a MONTH, taking her from svelte to overweight. From then she just got bigger and bigger.

Do you know what people like you to do people like her when you say things like ‘waaah waah waah’ excuses?

And before you say, ‘but that’s only a fraction of overweight people’, I’d like to see your scientific paper. Being stuck in hospital for so long has brought me in contact with people who are on all kinds of medications that bloat them up, or make them obsessively hungry. The fact is, you can’t tell from looking at someone whether they’re fat because of hormone treatments, anti-depressants or cortisone, or fat because they eat too much.

What you can tell, is that nastiness like this adds unbearable stress to people who are already struggling with the worst things possible.

Shame on you.

also, if you start at the very beginning of history

We’ve come a long way since the beginning of history. Stupidly obese might have been cool in the dinosaur ages but thankfully most of us are a bit more educated now.

Good luck with your weight loss, I hope it works out for you.

also, if you start at the very beginning of history, the venus of wildondorf (the female symbol of fertility) was an extreme obese female form. throughout history the female form has shifted and changed according to fashion. within renaissance times the volumptous female figure was de riguer, with artists using “rubenesque” models, fleshy and robust. there are many larger sized women is african cultures also.

whilst i am not particularly an advocate of fatness, i am an advocate of healthy. i find your comments unhelpful, especially when it is true that beauty can come in many forms.

I had always known why I was fat and how to lose it; and this from the ages of 12 to 16 (not a good time to be fat) I was never stupid enough to delude myself into thinking everything I was doing wasn’t directly causing me to be fat, or that my fatness wasn’t the reason I couldn’t bend over properly and had angina-like symptoms at 15. And I can’t go over to their stupid sites and tell them that it is possible to lose weight, as if they didn’t know.

Of course deep down they know they don;t have to be fat; but they love their f’n food too much.

They are actually very similar to pro-anorexia sites in the sense they think they know better than the medical community. When anas don’t immediately have health problems or die of their eating disorder, they think they’ve showed everyone else that it’s healthy to be ana and everyone else is just trying to ‘get them’ by telling them they’re unhealthy.

Remind you of someone?

I don’t know about you but how many overweight 70yo have you seen?? or 60yo?? Quite rare.

This is one of the major argument points in rebuttal of ‘fatties cost us more in healthcare’.

The response is usually ‘but we die younger!’ as if this is somehow a good thing!

Of course then there’s the paradox of being fat doesn’t cause health problems but they just mysteriously die off well before the national average age…

josep:

……….Do some real research ………..
….The statistics are inaccurate….

Where do we find this ‘real research’ ?

“The statistics are inaccurate” so how could we trust the research?

You can’t seriously reckon that the amount of fat people hasn’t increased in the last 50 – 100 years can you?

If the amount of machinery and the sedentary & easy lifestyles, and the use of computers and TV’s combined with the reliance on cars & buses hasn’t increased the girth of the nation I’ll eat my hat, it’s low carb.

Obviously you attract to yourself and seek out overweight people.

I attract overweight people when I go outside for a walk…?

‘Hey there’s OzSoapbox! Quick evacuate Maccas we need to go stand around him OMG CAN’T RESIST THE ATTRACTION!’

…riiiiiiight.

Do some real research and you will find out that there are less overweight people today by percentage than there was 50 years ago.

Where?! Worldwide or in Australia. Can you show me one of these studies??

Use your brain and see through the illusion. Your anecdotal account of the number of obese people you see is hardly a scientific or accurate approach.

In one breath you tell people not to trust scientific studies because they are done by evil masterminds with ulterior motives (such as this study in the Medical Journal of Australia conducted by, weight for it… university academics), and with the other you rubbish people for giving their personal observations. Then you cite imaginary and run around telling people it’s ok to be fat.

It’s time to wake up and smell the vegetable oil.