Hizb ut-Tahrir: Time to ban these morons in Australia
Over in England the establishment of a sharia court system to deal with civil cases involving the local muslim population occurred in late 2008. This in itself is a tribute to the success of Islamic groups such as Hizb ut-Tahrir.
Hizb ut-Tahrir are a global Islamic organisation full of hardline religious nutters hell bent on establishing a ‘trans-national Islamic state’. In short, Hizb ut-Tahrir would like nothing more then for the entire world to come under Sharia law.
The only thing stopping them? Democracy and the majority non-muslim populations currently living in the west.
Ironically the democracy system that Hizb ut-Tahrir fight is what also allows them to preach their religious nonsense. With democracy though comes political correctness and whilst the democratic system should work to shut radical groups like this down, instead it fosters them.
Governmental criticism is something we hold very dear in Australia and often actively engage in. There’s a massive difference however in criticising the current government of the day and attempting to undermine the entire political system that governs a country.
Yesterday Hizb ut-Tahrir flew in some British members of the group and held a anti-democracy conference in Sydney’s west (no surprises on that choice of location).
Burhan Hanif, leader of the British arm of Hizb ut-Tahrir declared democracy to be haram (forbidden).
We must adhere to Islam and Islam alone, we should not be conned or succumb to the disingenuous and flawed narrative that the only way to engage politically is through the secular democratic process. It is prohibited and haram.”
(Hanif) said democracy was incompatible with Islam because the Koran insisted Allah was the sole lawmaker, and Muslim political involvement could not be based on “secular and erroneous concepts such as democracy and freedom”.
According to their draft constitution, under a Hizb ut-Tahrir Sharia ruled nation, here’s what Australians would have to endure.
Defense
Conscription would be introduced for every male muslim aged fifteen years or older ‘in readiness for jihad‘.
One can assume this would mean mass casualties of Australians against Israel and the US as the Sharia government deploys everything we have to Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq.
Democracy
Democracy is obviously out. Muslim Australians would vote for a Caliph as head of state, non-muslims would have no say in the matter.
This Caliph would apparently differ from a president or prime minister in that we’d be seeking his or her (her, hahahah) opinion on policy rather then being governed by them.
Economy
The Australian dollar would be replaced by gold and silver coins. The Sharia state would run ‘utilities, public transport, health care, energy resources such as oil, and unused farm land‘.
“Government” retaining ownership of these services might be a good thing however remember all these utilities, in particular health care would get the Islamic treatment and be different from what we know today.
Non-muslims
Non-muslim Australians would be banned from working in any form of government or government run organisation. In effect they’d be stripped of any say in how the country was run.
Non-muslim Australians would only be able to criticise the government over what they believed to be ‘unjust acts’ carried out on them or the mis-application of Islam applied to them by the government.
Obviously if your objection was Islam itself your protests would most likely fall on deaf ears.
Personal Freedoms
Apostasy (leaving Islam), adultery, alcohol, and certain economic practices (gambling and interest based mortgages etc.) are out.
Apostasy in particular is punishable by death, ie. once you’re in, you’re in. There’s no escape.
Capital punishment would also make a return, along with stonings, hangings and beheading people (apostasy’s punishment).
Oh and we’d all have to learn Islam too as it’d become the official sole language of the state. None of this communicating in English nonsense.
As I keep mentioning, it’s one thing to criticise a government and another to entirely call for an established political system’s upheaval and transition.
I strongly believe in personal freedoms but just as I’m not allowed to engage in personal freedoms that would drastically alter the quality of life of others, why so are groups like Hizb ut-Tahrir allowed to work towards their goals?
Make no mistake, I’m not about to convert to Islam any time soon and living under Sharia law as a non-muslim would have a massive detrimental effect on my quality of life. As it would nearly all non-muslim Australians.
Julia Gillard has recently publicly declared herself an atheist and whilst you don’t need to be an atheist to oppose the political views of Hizb ut-Tahrir, it’d be great to see her do something about them. I mean at the very least deny visa applications for those wanting to travel to Australia who are hell bent on destroying our system of government.
That one should be a no-brainer.
As for the 500 people who attended the Hizb ut-Tahrir convention, shame on you. How dare you try change my country for the worse.
If you want to live under Sharia law then move to Saudi Arabia, leave my Australia the hell alone.
July 5th, 2010 at 2:45 pm PSF(Quote)
Sadly ozboy, it is not a no-brainer. Sadly there are many out there, and I’m not talking muslims here, or what I call the ideology of filth (iof).
We have blokes like Peter Fitzsimmons, who, after 9/11, wrote something along the lines of ‘just what must we have done to make them want to something like that against us’. I mean, come on, how can you argue against a mentality like this. And idiots like him get a forum in our newspapers.
It’s just mind boggling.
Ban muslim immigration now, and forevermore, and gaol these maggots who preach hatred and death against the Australian way of life. Or, because many out there question just what is the ‘Australian way of life’, gaol those who preach hatred and death to Australia.
July 5th, 2010 at 2:54 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
I have no problem with muslim immigration provided they are willing to be governed by our laws and not bring their stupid culturual baggage with them, which co-incidentally is usually why they are fleeing their homelands to begin with.
Anyone who doesn’t want to follow our laws and system of government should be refused entry and sent back, regardless of their religion or where they come from.
If they’re homegrown I’m not sure jailing them is such a good idea. For this particular conference Hizb ut-Tahrir had to ship in speakers from the UK, why they were granted visas is beyond me.
I very much doubt there’s an Australian muslim who would take to the stage on his or her own accord and call for the systematic destruction of Australian parliament.
The UK arm of Hizb ut-Tahrir has had reasonable success in establishing Islamic value into the British political system, on this momentum I’m assuming they believe they can also achieve success here.
Think again guys…
July 5th, 2010 at 4:32 pm cbp(Quote)
Part of a healthy democracy is, paradoxically, allowing free discussion of ideas that oppose democracy. Calling for discussion of these ideas to be banned is the same as shutting down democracy and free speech, and will only inspire Hanif.
He needs to think that the West is hypocritical so that he can justify his idealogy. I wouldn’t recommend playing into his hands. Ignorant comments like those by PSF above, are rubbish, hypocritical flamebait. There are plenty of muslims who yearn for democracy, and the vast majority of muslims do not ‘preach hatred and death’.
July 5th, 2010 at 5:01 pm PSF(Quote)
cbp – rubbish, hypocritical flamebait eh!!
So be it, if that’s what you think. By all means, allow free speech, but not when it involves, basically, the overthrow of the government, which is what these maggots are preaching. And you can be naive, but this is what is happening all over the world, the stealthy inroads into democracy, by these maggots.
And no cbp, I don’t think there are any moderate muslims. They may not preach hatred and death, but they don’t speak out about it either, and would, if a caliphate came about, be first in line to ‘embrace’ it.
As I often write on my favourite blog, where the flowery words of muslims are spouted, don’t just talk about it, get out on the streets, get up in the mosques, let the radicals out there know that there are many ‘moderate’ muslims who do not embrace the filth they spout. No, the only ones you hear are the Aayan Hirsi Alis of the world, who are no longer muslims, because it is apostate to speak out against it.
It’s blokes like you cbp who are the problem here, not the likes of me. Don’t forget the screaming hippies of the 60s embraced the oh so wonderful socialist ideals, and the teachers and other so-called intellectuals, all protesting against the Vietnam War, but they’d be the first ones put up against the wall if the commies had made it over here. ‘Useful idiots’ I believe is what Stalin called them.
And then there was the protest against Israel, the pro-palestinian group that wouldn’t allow gay supporters of same to join in with them. Can you see the irony of all that? If it wasn’t so serious it would be laughable.
So come on all you moderate muslims, let’s see and hear you on the streets, condemning the abhorrents acts perpetrated in the name of islam. Until that day comes, no such thing as a moderate muslim.
And ozboy, you think it’s a bad idea to gaol home-grown muslims if they break the law. And here you were the other day crying out against the non-custodial sentencing of those maggots nearly killing somebody, those Sudanese types.
People break our laws, gaol them, it’s that easy. Just like those who practise FGM, but like everything else about this lot the government is so pathetically, cowardly, quiet.
And then of course there are the ‘useful idiots’.
July 5th, 2010 at 6:31 pm cbp(Quote)
@PSF
It’s funny how you talk about irony, whilst simulataneously railing against those who ‘preach war’ and those who ‘protest war’.
For comments that are hatred-based, totalitarian, against the Australian way of life, and supporting of war and death, look no further than your own vitriolic comments about ‘maggots’, ‘useful idiots’ and ‘commies’.
Maybe if you broaden your reading material beyond Andrew Bolt you would find that there are plenty of muslims trying to espouse a peaceful messages. It’s a pity that they don’t get more airtime.
What is true democracy? You fail to see how someone can both disapprove of what someone else says, but fight for their right to say it anyway – that’s why your Israel example falls flat on its face.
July 5th, 2010 at 8:48 pm PSF(Quote)
Yeah yeah. Whatever. All I want to see in this country are protests against these maggots, by your moderate muslims. I’ve seen pictures of little girls holding placards that say, ‘death to the Jews’, and let’s not forget the one with the swastika, and those oh so cheerful words, ‘the nazis didn’t do enough’, and then there’s the one with something to do with ovens.
The authorities gave these maggots, and I include those little girls amongst that rancid lot, for with parents like they have, just how will they turn out one wonders.
It’s so easy for these maggot imams to incite riots and preach death at the publishing of cartoons of the big kahuna, good old mo, the paedophile, but get them on the streets to protest against FGM, which does happen in Australia, as witnessed by the 600 to 700 cases each year where doctors have to repair the damage done by backyard FGM jobs, and the other atrocities perpetrated against the infidels, guess what, nobody emerges.
So until I see a protest by muslims, against muslims, those maggot radicals preaching death against the infidel, which is us, then you cbp, are a useful idiot. An apologist for filth.
And I will continue my, peaceful, fight, against all the maggots out there who preach this filth. And if you don’t like it, well, you can rail against my words on here, or elsewhere.
So all I ask, give me one example of a moderate muslim. Not one who spouts flowery words about how bad some things are in the radical world, but one who has the courage to get up there, in the mosques, and rail against the words that are spouted against the western world. But they won’t, and I can understand that, what with the fear of death hanging over their heads for the apostasy.
As for my Israeli example falling flat, a useful idiot like yourself would of course think that. Basically the irony is that these maggots hang gays from cranes, yet pro-palestinian protesters won’t have them in their ranks.
But you of course knew that.
July 6th, 2010 at 3:18 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
@cbp
I don’t mind a discussion on ideas that oppose democracy but what we have here is a mob who have already made up their minds. It wasn’t so much as a discussion as an instruction from leaders on how to rally against the established system of government here.
A discussion is something that takes place between two parties.
@PSF
As far as I know it’s not illegal to discuss ideas nor urge people to take action against opposing democracy in Australia. That’s part of the reason I wrote the article.
If home grown muslims break the law then yes by all means jail them, the same as anyone else. Let’s just be sure they’re breaking the law as it stands though.
July 6th, 2010 at 3:59 am PSF(Quote)
Mate, I’m pretty sure these days you can’t go round spouting shit like that. Even if you and others think it’s free speech.
Just think of the two pastors who were hauled before VCAT, or some tribunal in Victoria, and they’d just read out words from that book, and some in the audience tittered. But then, that was a complaint from one of that lot, not police charges. If memory serves correctly here.
Times have changed since the days when you could call blacks coons or gays fags, not that you’d be charged for that, just counselled for years, but spouting words the likes of which they did, I’m sure there are vilification laws in there somewhere, or inciting hatred.
But I wouldn’t really know, not being a lawyer or police type person.
July 6th, 2010 at 4:22 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
I know Victoria has religious intolerance laws, not sure if that could be applied in reverse though. As in say religious intolerance against every other religion out there.
Federally I’m not sure what the legal repercussion if any there is for calling on people to destabilise an established government. Like I said above it’s one thing to discuss it and another to call upon action on it.
Ironically two news articles out today showcae the wonders of Islam;
The first is about Iran decreeing what haircuts are acceptable for males and calls for crackdowns on immodest clothing.
Then over in India a teacher had his arm cut off after he allegedly set an exam question that was offensive to (some) Muslims.
Yay for an Islamic Australia!
July 6th, 2010 at 10:03 am lemmiwinks(Quote)
That meeting, and the material disseminated therein smacks of sedition to me. Lock ‘em up, or give them a dose of their own bloodthirsty medicine – orf with their heads.
Islam – it’s the Old Testament interpreted literally and jammed down your throat (often after decapitation).
July 6th, 2010 at 12:49 pm PSF(Quote)
Thanks for those links ozboy. I can understand about ponytails though, for mine they have always been a tad ‘unmanly’ and very girly, especially on the older males in our community. Just check out Craig Johnson the other night on the soccer. Utterly ridiculous.
As for the second one, the wrist chopping off link, words fail me, but it’s what I’ve come to expect from this lot. And yes, that is a generalisation, but again, where are those protesting on the streets about things like this?
July 6th, 2010 at 6:58 pm AK(Quote)
Ozboy,
I have been following your blog for a while now, I find some of your posts entertaining/interesting. Now, I’m a muslim, although I’m not one of the “really evil” ones, just more along the line of “maggot who doesn’t speak up against the really evil ones” according to PSF.
I’m actually not sure where to begin, but I’ll try. I think you’re going through a small bout of islamophobia, which is fair enough, because I’m not about to say that all 1.1 billion muslims in the world are nice and fluffy.
My small observation here, is that whenever you talk about muslims, the posts seem very biased, against muslims of course. Moreso, they also pander to people like PSF who is a “non-maggot” and is so obviously against hate speech and is so obviously is anti-violence, judging from his posts (I hope you detect my sarcasm).
The last bit regarding your post is that while I can imagine a group trying to introduce a foreign-named system like “Sharia” can be scary to you, if you do some research you’ll find that while this particular group may be after limiting personal freedom and discriminating against people, Sharia as a method of governing – when it was first implemented – has been tolerant, and Meritocratic.
Yes, the system is ruled by a Caliph, just like the Australian system is ruled by a Prime minister, but said Caliph is meant to refer to a group (often large) of people with whom he consults with regarding his decisions. I simply recommend that you do a little bit more research, which may help scare you a bit less about muslims, or more, depends what you read.
Now, PSF, I’m only going to say that there’s no difference between you and nazis. They might’ve had their Jewish boogyman, you obviously have your Muslim one.
July 6th, 2010 at 7:13 pm David(Quote)
Try spelling ‘defence’ right first.
July 6th, 2010 at 7:43 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
@David
You are aware it can be spelt both ways right?
Try not looking stupid if you’re going to attempt to correct someone’s spelling first.
@AK
Whilst I’m far from referring to them as maggots, I strongly dislike the Islamic religion. That I make no secret of and would be silly to deny given the tone of most of my writings on Islam.
So why are the islamic ‘purists’ wanting the world to embrace a perverted (your words) version of Sharia law? Try getting your non-muslim tolerance and meritocracism. Under Sharia you might be the smartest person in the country but you aren’t contributing dick to government if you’re not muslim.
This is great if your muslim but if not then it’s a one way street of marginalisation and severe restriction of personal and political freedom. I’d rather take my chances with a vote outable prime minister then be segregated and marginalised over some silly religious laws based on a god I don’t believe in.
As an aside when did Ozboy gain common use? How’d I go from OzSoapbox to Ozboy?!
July 6th, 2010 at 8:06 pm AK(Quote)
Oh, I just saw someone else call you that, sorry.
Those “purists” are hard liners/extremists, way beyond the recommended dosage Islam followed in its early days, those people are about 1-5% of the total population, the rest are either: liberals anywhere between 5-25% of the total population, and the rest either don’t know better or a shade of grey in between (These are just off of the top of my head, having lived in a muslim country before).
I can’t really base my stereotype of Christians on bible bashers and Klan men otherwise I wouldn’t walk the street without an automatic weapon handy.
As for Sharia governments, islamic communities (early form) have always been inclusive to Christians and Jews. They were made to pay a small tax to contribute to the community, simply to put them on equal basis, as muslims -have- to pay money to help the poor/community as part of the religion.
That said, I recall no basis for exclusion of non-muslims from governance, since they’re welcomed to participate in defensive military duty (Jihad… another scary word). Islam only discriminates against Atheism and paganism, Abrahamic religions have always been respected/included etc. So I guess it depends which side of that particular fence you’re on.
July 6th, 2010 at 8:12 pm AK(Quote)
Mind you, I’m not trying to sell it. I’m just saying it’s not so bad you should feel compelled to go out of your way to fight it.
July 6th, 2010 at 8:19 pm PSF(Quote)
AK, spare me the Nazi analogy. I’m not in this world wanting the destruction of any muslims, apart from said maggots. All I want is for the likes of you to stop spouting words, and take action against the radicals. By that I don’t mean take them out, or honour kill them, or stone them, but stand up and have your voice heard, especially at the mosque.
Take the microphone off the maggots spouting death and destruction, and condemn them, in front of everybody, and continue doing it, until non-muslims witness it. Good luck though. I know you are in a no-win situation here, if you do that you might end up dead, or they might just de-muslimise you for being an apostate. Again, good luck.
So again, until I see muslims protesting in the streets against the atrocities perpetrated in the name of islam, instead of rioting and killing blasphemers, and of course fellow muslims, over ridiculous cartoons, I will continue on with my ‘Nazi’ analogy of ‘there is no such thing as a moderate muslim.’
July 6th, 2010 at 9:08 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
@AK
Well then instead of criticism of Islam see it as criticism of hardliners/extremists. As much as I make the personal choice to dislike the religion I don’t mind people practicing it, minus the mysogony, disrespect towards other religions (including agnosticism and atheism) and culture of forcing Islamic religious ideals on everybody else.
If non-hardline Islamic Sharia includes non-muslims then that’s marginally better, but I’m still opposed to a theocracy.
Exclusion in that a Caphir can only discuss governence matter or take advice from Muslims and are unable to take any form of government office? Sounds pretty exclusive to me.
I see the bulk of the Australian population as being agnostic. If we didn’t have a census, defining what religion you are would most likely be all but irrelevant in most peple’s lives.
The fact that Sharia law discriminates against anyone on the basis of religion is enough reason alone that it should never be implemented anywhere.
July 6th, 2010 at 9:33 pm AK(Quote)
You’re out of luck then mate. I’m not really religious, so I’m not about to go to the mosque and try and eradicate extremism. Most people like me don’t have the will/need/courage/dedication to pursue the matter either.
Those who do, are about equal in size to those who are extremists. I’ll tell you though, I’m preparing to try and join the army and hopefully get deployed while Afghanistan’s still a war zone, so that should clarify my stance on the matter.
I hope you realise that Islam isn’t mysogenic either, woman are treated on equal basis to men, we don’t force our women to do crap, and if you go to any muslim country you’ll find that in many households women wear the pants, just like Oz.
Exception being Saudi Arabia, but then again, that’s cultural/extremist policy, not pure Islamic practice.Same applies to respecting other religions. You can’t really call atheism/agnosticism a religion because by definition they indicate a lack or uncertainity that there’s a God, so that’s just a different can of worms.
Well, seeing that we’re talking about a hypothetical muslim community, it stands to reason that the Caliph position would be occupied by a Muslim. That aside, I’m pretty sure most other positions with the exception of Islamic judiciary are open to non-muslims. In fact, one of Salah Al-Din’s closest aides was a Copt, back when they were fighting off the crusaders.
From my point of view, I simply don’t see how you would have a problem with Sharia and not have a problem with say, The House of Lords, in the UK, which used to be theocratic, and still is highly aristocratic.
Anyway, why don’t I see you bash the Vatican, I don’t see them hiring anyone who isn’t Catholic to work in their government
July 8th, 2010 at 4:25 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
In the house maybe, everywhere else they’re second class citizens. What muslim countries have equal rights for women?
Whatever you want to call atheism or agnosticism, what about respeting those people who believe it? If Sharia law doesn’t then it has no place in modern society.
Hows that gunna work? A non-muslim isn’t bound to silly religious rules. In terms of discussing policy and what not what happens when somebody in office holds considerable weight over a matter but isn’t muslim?
Death threats and riots?
Because Australia doesn’t have a house of lords…
Probably because the Vatican isn’t holding conferences in Australia calling on Christians to overthrow our democractically elected government and implement Vatican law.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:29 am James(Quote)
Please BAN this stupid extremist group, they do more harm than good. I don’t want Australia to become like Great Britain, bowing down to bit by bit of Sharia Law aka Stone age religion.
There’s a reason why there’s over a billion of those who are non believers it’s because religion is wack.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:59 am lemmiwinks(Quote)
You’re missing the point, Australia already has a system of governance and law and order. A second, parallel system, regardless of whom it applies to is neither desired, required, nor welcome.
If Muslim immigrants, or Australian born Muslims wish to live under a system of Sharia law then I heartily recommend that they emigrate to one of the many such countries which will fulfill their hearts desire post-haste.
Why you would come to a country and then try to implement your own system of law and order is beyond me. However, as politically incorrect as it may be to say it, this is the danger of multiculturalism.
When some groups who chose not to assimilate with their host country reach a critical mass, they begin to become a force in their own right. Enclaves form, and unofficially they begin self governance anyway.
Naturally this is a crass generalization, but sadly the hard line nutbags and their followers give everyone a bad name, much like the flag wearing, mouth breathing, room temperature IQ, Cronulla bogan redneck deadshits made all white Australians look bad a few years ago.
Having said that, should anyone try to implement Sharia law in this country I’ll be standing shoulder to shoulder with the aforementioned deadshits and handing them cigarette lighters so they can light their molotov cocktails.
July 8th, 2010 at 11:00 am SydneyCub(Quote)
I have read this blog and find that there is a lot of ‘hate in the room’.
As far as I am concerned religion is the whole cause of problems in the world. It is mans interpretation of another mans point of view that was written thousands of years ago. This interpretation has taken many forms, and I am sure that God is sitting up in heaven throwing his arms up in the air saying where did I go wrong?
I am a Roman Catholic Gay man living in Sydney. Do I need to be described as such? Should anyone on this earth be subject to predjudice of any kind due to religious belief or (in no fault of their own) sexual orientation?
The message is simple; treat those the way you would wish to be treated. Why can’t everyone just get along and live in harmony?
I do agree though that Australia is a melting pot of culture and religious beliefs. I don’t agree that there should be people out there holding conferences denouncing any particular way of life, let alone my own and my fellow Australians.
And yes a lot of the bloggers out there are right, why do they allow people from overseas into this country who are hellbent on preaching hatred and predjudice?
It’s a difficult issue to solve, one that I am afraid to say, may never be solved.
July 8th, 2010 at 7:48 pm Juxtaposer(Quote)
HuT would impose the islamic strait jacket on all of us. We have the equivalents of halal and haram in Australia too. If it is a good thing by our culture (halal) we call it “fair dinkum”. If it is a bad thing (haram) we call it “bullshit”, and that is exactly what HuT is.
July 9th, 2010 at 9:28 am Beirutbomber(Quote)
Hey Juxtaposer and everyone else,lets not get confused, Haram or not and Fairdinkum or Bullshit,It’s not the same. The issue is that Haram is forced upon you and that’s no Bulshit. Where as the good old Ozzie Sayings are not foced upon you, they are ones own personal opinions and that’s fairdinkum.
I say again and again, to all you numb skulls out there, that Australia is not a free country, it is a country with freedoms, now before you all start saying this is Bullshit and lets enforce HAram upon me, hear me out.
The truth of the matter is that freedom in Australia is designed around everyone being equal, and it’s about giving people a fair go. So the point I am making is that Freedom is not about someone coming from over seas with their point of view and FORCING it upon the people who already live here and who have already created a greener pasture for people running away from their war torn Countries.
So do you get my point, Freedom is not a mechanism for oppression.
My Family left Lebanon in 1964, not a war torn torn country back then, and we have embraced the Australian way of life and at the same time mourned at seeing this opression inflicted on Lebanon by people who do want Haram and oppression inflicted on it. LET THIS BE A WARNING TO YOU ALL.
So where does this end….Well, Keep the bastards out, and that my friend IS fairdinkum and definetly no Bullshit.
July 9th, 2010 at 11:18 am lemmiwinks(Quote)
Ah! Sharia law, ain’t it grand?!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/09/2948797.htm
July 9th, 2010 at 1:54 pm AK(Quote)
I whole heartedly agree. I was just discussing a different point.
Soap, mate, it’s obvious that it’s rather pointless to sell you any religion in general, all I ask, and pretty much the reason I butted in this discussion is simply to ask you to research crap before you post it.
This blog, is the equivalent of a newspaper, or another form of mass media, and it would be great, in many different ways, if your assumptions about billions of people were founded on solid grounds.
July 9th, 2010 at 3:59 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
@lemmiwinks
They’ll probably make her two children watch too.
Yes please let’s introduce Sharia law. Over the top punishments for relatively small “crimes” is awesome.
@AK
I do put some research into the articles that I write and a lot of OzSoapbox is personal opinion based on this research.
If you’re trying to sell me religion then yes, it’s a pointless task. Discussing religion on the other hand might get you somewhere.
I’ve got no problems with people believing whatever religion they want to believe. Try to ‘sell‘ it to me however and I’m going to protest.
July 9th, 2010 at 8:14 pm WS(Quote)
As a western non-muslim woman and the mother of a daughter, the whole sharia concept horrifies me, as does the burka. I have no issue with any other head coverings though. These movements start as small things then snowball into revolutions so we CANNOT allow this to happen in Australia. Ever.
I’m sorry AK but you are severely deluded if you think that women are seen as being equal to men even in moderate islamic societies. Unfortunately many of these women perpetuate the lie because they’ve been conditioned (brainwashed) from birth into believing the bullshit.
As a woman I find the burka extremely disturbing & offensive. To me it symbolises oppression.
I feel the psyche of the female’s plight in islamic society has much to do with the men being inadequate. Many of them are also bone lazy. Perpetuating that women are 2nd rate enables them to feel better about themselves as men. They have at least one domestic & sex slave.
Yes, in islam a man can have sex with (& rape) many women providing he marries them first. Hell, he can even marry & fornicate (rape) with a child. No such thing as pedophilia. A martyr will have 72 or whatever virgins when he gets to heaven, but after he’s screwed them all they’re no longer virgins. So then what?
Eternity of non-virgins or do their hymens grow back miraculously? Too many questions of logic that totally flaws these ideals.
No Australia, we cannot ever let these misguided zealots take over. Deport these imams & their cronies. If they are Australian citizens, revoke & deport to country of origin. If an Australian convert to fundamentalism, deport to any islamic nation & revoke citizenship.
I don’t give a shit if they’re born here or not. Their countries would never tolerate our ways so why should we be forced to tolerate theirs?
Advance Australia Fair
July 11th, 2010 at 1:37 am AK(Quote)
….Wow… Just Wow. WS, There isn’t a line in your post that isn’t extremely biased.
Let me repeat this all over again. I’m muslim, yes we’re allowed to marry up to 4 women, it’s not however viewed as favourable. No we don’t have sex with children, arranged marriages and child marriages are a cultural thing. No, we don’t get 72 virgins, that’s just a number someone pulled out of their arse.
I don’t like burkas either, but head coverings are a personal freedom issue, if they don’t measure up to your fashion standards, that’s your problem, no one else’s.
Women aren’t conditioned, I grew up between Egypt and Syria and I can tell you that women there have no problem kicking arse, hell they’re sometimes feistier than aussie women.
People have domestics because labour is cheap and people need money to eat. No, domestics don’t double over as sex slaves, and if they do, it has nothing to do with Islam.
In my entire argument with Oz, I’ve never supported the appointment of religious zealots to govern, and if you seriously oppose that, you won’t be voting for Abbot. The entie points of my posts were to simply state that while the word might sound scary to some, none of the concepts are alien or horrible to an extent that you need to go out of your way to bash them and invite more hate mongers/islamophobic freaks out of the woods while you’re at it.
Anyway, I’d like this country to revoke the citizenship of anyone with an IQ under 100 (just because I’m elitist like that)or happens to pretend they know crap about some issue they actually know nothing about, but you don’t see me sprouting that crap every time an … individual like yourself comes and vomits some nonesense about a highly disputed issue like this one.
For the record, my tone is much less civil with this post, not because a woman, but well, because you never actually bothered to learn a thing about any of issues you actually talked about.
Last question: How the hell would you know what the psyche of a woman in the middle east is all about, is there a special course you study at tafe for that or did you pull that straight out of where the sun don’t shine?
Now let me pretend to be really patriotic and use the national anthem to support my baseless opinions.
July 12th, 2010 at 6:33 am WS(Quote)
Oky doky AK I admit I pushed & exaggerated somewhat, to illustrate a point. There are many smart, educated & most importantly decent muslims of both genders. I also have a great respect for the freedoms that Australia allows them to practice their religion without persecution, & I hope it stays that way. My concern is with the fundamentalists who would promote sharia law. It has no place in this land.
I have travelled overseas to communist countries where things could get quite dicey & I even had to be careful of what I said & in front of whom. Our present & recent governments here in Australia (both federal & state) concern me greatly with little bits of our civil liberties being chipped away here & there, slowly & subtly.
The whole 9/11 & terrorist threats (of which there are many unpublicised I might add) has given them an easier platform for which to tighten things slowly. Think back to Nazis in Germany, Zugabe in Zimbabwe, Taliban in Afghanistan (& they managed to destroy a beautiful country with many beautiful people for what?). I could go on.
I use this to illustrate the point that from small things, big things grow, & something like this has the potential to snowball into something much larger & scarier. Again, Afghanistan is a good example.
My comment about the paedophilia relates to the practice (which is not only practised by some muslims but in other cultures also) in where young girls are married off to often much older men. Many of these girls have barely entered their teens.
Another concern is why in some of these nations a woman is punished far more severely than a man for “adultery”. There is also the practice of “honour killings” of murdering girls & women who’ve been raped hence bringing shame to their families instead of support. Their rapists go unpunished.
Segregation of the genders has ironically made it very difficult for men to see women as smart & valuable individuals in their own right. Women are seemingly for sex if their heads are uncovered. While it’s not a muslim thing, it has been adapted by many as part of their culture. There is also much about western society that I don’t like either, however, introducing sharia laws (even to a minority) is not the answer.
As for psyche, I’ve read blogs, watched docos & read many books & articles, as well as met some of these women. We’re a product of our environment, & if you are “nurtured” in environments such as they are, they are conditioned to believe the bullshit. Just look at the young ones who want to become “martyrs”. They are products of their environment also. Just as you & I are.
So AK, am I biased? Probably. But I at least (for now, & hopefully forever) I am able to make comments like this in our beautiful land without being jailed or executed. A sharia law wouldn’t allow this (eventually).
Peace, love & freedom for us ALL is what I want.
July 12th, 2010 at 7:46 pm Beirutbomber(Quote)
PS, My story is directed at extremists off all types and not specifically to any religion either. We all need to respect one anothers views and never expect to impose or enforce our Ideas onto someone else, especially if it takes their freedom away. Thank you.
“DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU”……”and “he who is WITHOUT SIN, let him cast the first stone”
I am a sinner too
July 15th, 2010 at 4:43 am WS(Quote)
PPS Beirutbomber – I’m with you on this – there are other religions who have their misguided fanatics that cause a lot of grief. IRA being a prime example of catholics who like to bomb civilians under the loose guise of religion (but more so to drive out the poms).
And I feel sick about the muslims in Srebrenica being slaughtered by the Bosnian serbs. I watched a doco about a muslim woman who had survived the massacre, but her husband & sons were slaughtered. After the war she went back to what was her home, only to find that her Serbian neighbours had moved in & taken over her old home. Talk about rubbing salt into wounds, they wouldn’t leave or give her a bed. That’s not humanity, that’s evil.
As a mother of both sons & daughters, I can’t begin to imagine her pain. I hope it’s something I never have to experience, especially in this country. Anyhow, I digress again.
This forum is about the Hizb ut Tahrir hence my comments. I’ve been referring to the small (but dangerous) group of extremists who confuse things like mass-murder with martyrdom etc., and oppression of women in some of the muslim parts of the world.
We’re all sinners because it’s human nature to do wrong from time to time, but there is something wrong with you if you don’t learn from it & strive to be better. Much worse are those individuals that continue to sin against humanity knowingly & by choice – they are evil. I lump white supremacist groups under the same banner.
At the end of the day, we’re all people. We love, we laugh, we cry & so on. All most of us on this planet want a secure home, food on the table, love in our lives with family & friends, peace & stability. Why can’t people just live & let live?
I wish you well Beirutbomber, I have some fantastic Lebanese friends. They also feed me kick-arse baklava, yum!
July 21st, 2010 at 8:57 am Cyn(Quote)
I don’t understand – THESE people can get Visas to speak out against our fundamental way of life and liberty? But some dude who thinks the Holocaust didn’t happen decades ago, is banned?? Can someone explain that one to me, please??
July 21st, 2010 at 2:21 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Israel has nukes.
What Israel wants, Israel gets.
July 21st, 2010 at 2:29 pm Cyn(Quote)
Oh. Forgot about that.
December 14th, 2010 at 4:13 am WhereOntotheInvaders(Quote)
Right on about them coming here and accept our ways OzSoapBoc
Ticks all round
I am sure we should ask why not have Christian Law in Iraq or Afghanistan? Try Indonesia? I wonder how long that would last?
Just to be fair now!
SIMPLE – IF YOU COME HERE YOU COME LEGALLY ON OUR TERMS AND IF CANNOT FOLLOW OUR WAY OF LIFE LEAVE IMMEDIATLEY
I WILL FIGHT TO MY LAST DROP OF MY BLOOD/FAMILY/FRIENDS/GOOD DEAL OF AUSSIES TO HAVE SUCH A LAW REMOVED IF IT WAS FORCED UPON US
NO SHARIAH LAW IF YOU DONT LIKE IT —–LEAVE
GO AUSTRALIAN LAW BECAUSE THESE INVADERS ARE AUSTRALIAN RIGHT?….
December 31st, 2010 at 12:42 am Mrkafirlover(Quote)
@Where,
As someone previously pointed out, sharia will not suddenly be placed upon you in a way where you will have a chance to fight it. By the time sharia is imposed all your guns will have been taken away.
Most of the government jobs will be in the hands of muslims, your class status would have been relegated to 2nd in some cases 3rd class depending on your religious persuasion.
What islam does is use a form of subversive tactic to slowly and methodically erode your freedoms and rights by their demands for equality and the refusal to allow criticism of islam. By the time you have wiped the crap out of your eyes it will be too late to fight this menace.
That is why myself and others like me are attempting to involve as many Australians in this issue as possible to highlight the “creeping sharia” that is taking place in Australia and the west as we speak.
There is a term used in islam called “Al Taqiyya” which is used to lie and deceive infidels for the advancement of islam. For those of you that are not familiar with this term please research it. Now please dont come back to me and quote how Al Taqiyya is and isnt used.
It is very well documented on how Al Taqiyya is used to subvert the democratic system for instance. The one muslim above could be using this tactic to downplay the demonisation of islam so that it may become palatable to you and I and thus we begin to think of sharia and islam as no longer a threat but maybe a good thing. This is exactly what they are trying to achieve by doing this.
You can not and must not allow your resolve on this matter to be shaken by people employing this tactic of lies and deceit. I personally do not believe in moderate islam, their is no such thing spoken of in the quran or the sunnah, therefore it does not exist. I do however believe that their are muslims who refuse to partake in extreme forms of islamic militancy but that does not make them moderate at all, what it does make them is, apostates who are in jeopardy of being found out and beheaded for their indiscretion.
So come on Australia tell all your friends and family about this so that we can see through their lies and deceit.
January 15th, 2011 at 4:28 pm Sanjana(Quote)
This is funny…. we muslims want Caliphate in the muslim lands ONLY!!! NOT in Aus or UK or USA!!! duhhhh!!!! Aus does nt even have that many muslims!!!
why would we even bother to work that hard on non muslim lands???
We are more concerned about kicking out our west-worshippin puppet zionist dictators…. we are not bothered about the west!!
just cause there is a campaign in the west for Caliphate does not mean we want to eastablish caliphate in the west!
Let us work in our own land first…. then we would think about the rest if needed :S:S:S
January 15th, 2011 at 4:39 pm Sanjana(Quote)
Ph whatever… loads of bullshit in the above comments… should not have come here to comment in the frst place….
anyways… to all you guys… caliphate is not coming in the west…! its an obligation for the muslim living in the muslim majority land only to bring in Islam…
we have been oppressed and tortured for the last 87 years by the western nations by the help of our traitor rulers! now enough is enough!
we need islam in our lands…
those ‘western’ muslims …. sis and bro u can choose your own way of life… u dont have to live in a caliphate and vote for a caliph! live in the west!
the reason why western govts are sooooo scared of the re eastablishment of a caliphate is because… when caliphate would come.. we will become ONE UMMAH again… stretching frok Indonesia to Turkey! and west would not be able to earn the loads of interest they earn by giving conditional loans they give to poorer countries… and west would not be able to suck in our resources illegally from our land!
Anyways… Caliphate is going to come ! insha Allah….
and we will become one mighty Ummah again… with justice and peace only!
those muslims who dont like it… they can live in the west…! and westerners dont have to be worried coz we arnt trying to eastablish it in ur land!!
January 16th, 2011 at 6:30 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Hizb ut-Tahrir are calling for a ‘trans-national Islamic state‘. Might want to have a chat to them before you claim to represent the views of all muslims.
So why campaign for it then in the west?
Makes about as much sense as campaigning for communism in the west, but then claiming you don’t want communism in west.
Population demographics are dynamic, so what happens if a country in the west gains a muslim majority…?
And what about all those non-muslims living in countries between Indonesia and Turkey (China and India in particular)?
Should they be worried?
January 19th, 2011 at 1:12 pm PeterF57(Quote)
Back on air after a month away, having finally had the internet hooked up at home. Didn’t really miss it.
To all those on here blahblahblahhing about muslims not doing this and not doing that, and there’s good and bad blah blah, to me that’s bullshit.
To me a good muslim is on who gets out on the streets denouncing these retarded misogynistic maggots, just like these maggots get little girls out on the streets with signs saying ‘All Jews to the gas’. Yes, it’s so easy to round up this type of retard, but get a ‘good’ muslim out on the streets, to protest against this filth, not a chance.
So until I see muslims out on the streets doing such as that, I will have nothing to do with any muslim whatsoever, because to me there is no such thing as a good one.
If sharia law came in here, and please, we could not plumb to such depraved depths, you know, little girls’ vagina slicing, honour killings, oh wait, that filth happens here now but it’s covered up because it’s cultural. And spare me anybody asking for proof.
It happens here and all the feminists, who lambast us Aussie blokes for being pigs to our wives, sitting on our fat arses watching TV, remain ominously silent on this depravity.
But on a lighter note, here’s a damn fine joke. The name of the religion has been changed to protect the innocent.
A professor at the Auburn University was giving a lecture on Paranormal Studies. To get a feel for his audience, he asks,
‘How many people here believe in ghosts?’
About 90 students raise their hands.
‘Well, that’s a good start. Out of those who believe in ghosts, do any of you think you have seen a ghost?’
About 40 students raise their hands.
‘That’s really good. I’m really glad you take this seriously. Has anyone here ever talked to a ghost?’
About 15 students raise their hand.
‘Has anyone here ever touched a ghost?’
Three students raise their hands.
‘That’s fantastic. Now let me ask you one question further…Have any of you ever made love to a ghost?’
Way in the back, little Johnny raises his hand.
The professor takes off his glasses and says ‘Son, all the years I’ve been giving this lecture, no one has ever claimed to have made love to a ghost. You’ve got to come up here and tell us about your experience.’
The overseas student replied with a nod and a grin, and began to make his way up to the podium. When he reached the front of the room, the professor asks,
‘So Johnny, tell us what it’s like to have sex with a ghost?’
Johnny replied, ‘Shit, from way back there I thought you said goats.’
And yes, I’ve seen pictures of blokes in tunnels, digging a way into and out of a certain country to smuggle in arms, coming out of the gloom with their arms around goats, with love in their eyes.
January 23rd, 2011 at 12:16 am Sanjana(Quote)
—- there is nothing called nationalism in Islam… Nationalism is prohoibited… Islam wants all muslims to be One single Ummah… one single brotherhood… with no boundaries created on the basis of language, race, color etc etc… racism is strictly haram in Islam…
For the last 88 years we muslims are being tortured oppressed both by our traitor rulers and the west is because we all all divided…. we are all broken into 57 nations…
—- Because there are many many many muslims who migrated to the west because of economical or political reasons… they would want to go back to an islamic environment if they are provided with economic and political stability….this is why its important to inform these muslims…. Moreover… ur freedom of speech permits such campaigns… Secondly muslims in the west who are pious… thier practise level is much higher and are better educated… they can contribute to re-eastablish Khilafa in the muslim land.
—- SO u guys allow campaigns for communism… but have problems with campaigns for Khilafa? whereas clearly Khilafa is wayyy better than communism… but yeah ofcourse u suffer from islamophobia! u guys swallow whatever u see in the media… but yeah at least aussies are still little better… USA is even worse… they arent called dumbest for no reason.
— then that particular land would become a Khilafa state as well… but since we want Khilafa little earlier… i dont think so anyone is actly waiting for any western country to become a muslim majority country and then to eastablish Khilafa… why.. is there any western land which is becoming a muslims land soon? i thnk europe would… but thats like after 100 years.. ! moreover… it is clearly written in the Quran Jesus pbuh would come.. and then rule the whole world with peace and justice… may be yes those european couintires after 100 years would become a khilafa state…
——– India was a muslim land…. so yes India would come under the Khilafa… if not initially but may be when Khilafa would eastablish well… and people of India would want it… cummon… Gandhiji even though he was a hindu.. was not supporting the Caliphate movement in 1920s without reason… he knew A khilafa is not only for muslims… its good for other faiths as well…
And China may not come in the primary level… its not even a muslim majority land anyway…
we muslims want Khilafa first in our lands… coz we are fed up of our rulers,…. we are fed up of western governments… USA that is…
— ofcourse not… if u look at the constitution of a Caliphate… u would see non muslims have thier own rights… Khilafa would give them peace in thier home land… see i come from a muslim countries.. and yes non muslims are minorities and they are tortured by these puppet traitor govts we have… although muslims are more tortured in non muslim countries like India China Myanmar… but stil that does not justify torture on non muslims in our land…
and this has only become possible because there is no Islam in these muslim lands… all we have are dictators… USA worshippin puppets…
In an islamic state.. i.e. Non muslims have the rights to practise thier religion… and they are given a separate area just o celebrate thier festivals… which we defntly dont see now a days… Muslim boys are bound to join the army… whereas Non Muslims boys would not be asked/forced to do so….if they want they can….. anyways u can refer to the constitution…
Moreover in an islamic state…. a person harming any non muslims would incurr a sin of harming our beloved prophet pbuh… so no one dares to say anything to non muslims in an islamic state!
hey waitt….. seriously are u judging islamic state by lookin at Saudi and iran??????????? oh pleaseeee…. Saudi has the most haram system… Kingdoms! kings and queens are haram in islam….
we can only have elected caliphs… who would rule by the law of God…
and btw… even our christians and hindus are very sober and decent….much much better than western people in terms of practising religion.. even they dont like girls going around naked… and boys going around checking out girls….
Islamic laws are little flexible compared to christianity so its easier for our non muslims to fit in.
January 23rd, 2011 at 12:22 am Sanjana(Quote)
January 23rd, 2011 at 12:31 am Sanjana(Quote)
some people ar sayinh why no christian laws in Iqaq? forget Iraq since majority is muslims… why arent the western countires having christians laws then??
if that had been the case…. we muslims would have been more than happy… coz all capital punishments from Bible is even stricter than Sharia’h law… infct Bible prohibits alchohol and pork as well…. and Christianilty even has capital punishment for not maitainign hijab by women….
in islam the punishment is only after death.. there is no capital punishment in sharia for not doing hijab.
do u guys actly talk using brains??
January 23rd, 2011 at 9:05 pm PeterF57(Quote)
Why is it that those on the losing end of the argument always come out with the bible, about it having all those laws, you know, banning this and banning that, doing this and doing that? Guess what blokes, you are right, I guess the bible does have those things written in the chapters somewhere. I have not read it, nor will I ever, but I take your word for it.
But here’s the rub for you morons, us in the west, us infidels, we came out of the 7th century and the dark dark ages, and embraced the future, the here and now, instead of wallowing in the cesspool that is islam and those cesspools of countries that have the truly foul sharia law.
Hopefully OzBoy will put up the video I sent him, showing what wonderful charming blokes the followers of the pm are (pm stands for paedophile mo). And spare me that he wasn’t, not that I believe for one minute that he was a real person, for if I read correctly, a marriage at 6 and consummation of marriage at age 9 for poor little Aisha, in our country, and all countries that have advanced the 13 or so centuries, that is paedophilia. And I believe that is in the book and we know just how literally the idiots take it.
Are you going to put it up OzBoy? Please pass on though that it is truly vile, and should not be watched by those who are even just a tad squeamish.
Religion of peace my arse!!!!! Religion of filth is much more apt.
And yes, I know, I’m a nazi, an rofaphobe, a hater of muslims, blahblahblah. Ban muslim immigration now, and deport all those who flout our laws, yes, even change the laws to take away citizenship of any who do anything in subverting our laws and way of life. No sharia law, no koori law, no other laws except the laws of our country and the states and territories.
January 23rd, 2011 at 9:30 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
January 24th, 2011 at 1:01 am Sanjana(Quote)
——— I am repeating again… nationalism is haram in islam.. devotion to culture and interest of one’s nation is haram… coz muslims can ONLY be devoted to God… thats that… moreover nationalism just divides!
——– no there would be no instablity in an islamic state….
instability is only present if haram and kufr system… and all muslims lands are under kufr haram system now…
—— Please refer the consitution from Khilafa that says so… but yes now if u go around insulting our prophet and our creator in an islamic state u r bound to face capital punishment… e.g. if u go around doing something which is illegal in australia.. e.g. advertising marijuana ofcourse u gotta face some punishments wont u? although marijuana is legal in some places in the USA… so yeah in am islamic state you do have your rights to speak against wrong doings… but u r not expected to go around talk nonsense about our creator or our phophets pbut
– i said western muslims can contribute… it does nt only mean they have ti go around educating savages… and suppose even if there are savages… then yeah why not…? western muslims should help thier brothers. as simple as that… u dont even make any sense :S
— seriously.. do u have problems in understanding?? ddn i already mention there is noooo islamic rule at present! umm… please show me one muslim land which is an ‘islamic state’!! well there is not… and yess under our current rule most of us are indeed uneducated..! this is why we want caliphate! duhh…. because knowledge is fard(obligation) in islam….
so what violence is the call for Caliphate promoting? kill jews? kill disbelievers? answer me when u are done swallowing nonsense from the media…
—– oh so u consider yourself to become a bank robber someday in near future? and you consider yourself to be a threat to the society in future as well? well whatever… if you do… u should never choose to live in a caliphate.
since u really got problems in understanding… i am asking you again… which ‘current’ islamic government u are talkin about? coz we muslims dont see any…
— there is noo nationalistic tie in a Khilafa… i thnk u meant I sound awfully muslims…. muslim-some1 who has submitted his/her will to God…
so Yeah i am only devoted to my creator… which is why I would want His ordered system… Khilafa
—- if you consider it that way…. then u should know Islam is THE oldest religion (since u consider old=perfect)… Islam means submission to the will of One God… let alone judaism christianity which defntly talks about submission to One god… Even hindu scriptures Veda(their most authentic holy book acc to hindus) talks about Only One god… and submitting will to the One God only.. u want references? or u wanna search urslf?
—- the way India was under Ottoman Caliphate…. the way India got its best Islamic unis since centuries… the way India was ruled by mughals under Ottoman Caliphate…
—- Caliphate movement broke cause of some traitor muslims not cause of gandhiji… so suppose if those muslims didnt fall in the brit traps… caliphate movement would have been successful… so inspite of knowing that gandhiji supported the caliphate?
anyways “Mahatma Gandhi said, ” If India has to improve it should be ruled by a dictator as honest and upright as Hadrat Umar (The Caliph of Islam)”— i wanted to give reference of the website which has this collection of gandhiji’s quotes… but i thnk i rather would find a book for u… so will give reference for this in a while…
—- oh goshh… u repeated it again… yes u do have problems in understanding…. i am again asking you show me a single muslim land which is an islamic state? Kingdoms.. democracy etc etc are all haram… and there is no experimented versions of islamic state… its either a Caliphate… or whatever it is-its not islamic.
why are u comparing an islamic state with saudi jordan iran pakistan indonesia etc etc… :S
— marijuana is legal in some USA states.. y d u guys have it banned here in aus? dont u feel its unfair to those marijuana lovers?
why does singapore have such a strict rule of putting a passenger to death if he/she is found with drugs? is nt that barbaric…
well people dont have problems with these rules… coz when they enter such places they know what the rules are… and how shall they behave… so non-religious people should be aware of the rules of an islamic state…. he/she should be smart enough to behave properly…
seriously i would no try to sell weed in my uni campus coz i know its illegal here in aus… but suppose i do it.. will ur govt spare me the fine/punishment/or whtever?
—- okay so just dont… no1 is inviting u to live in a Caliphate! or forcing u either… u choose ur own way of life…
we want to choose our own way of life…
or do u mean… that u have the right to choose your life.. but we dont? and Caliphate is not a culture… its a system.
—- there are just sooo many versions of bible i ddnt know which one to pick…so i donno which one aussies think of as most correct…:S so here it goes… picked these… but u can cross check… and i dont have how many 1000 versions u have… but i thnk rules would not be changed…after all…
New International Version (©1984)
If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Yes, if she refuses to wear a head covering, she should cut off all her hair! But since it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut or her head shaved, she should wear a covering.
and i dont get it… are u christian? u r supposed to know that alchohol is prohibited in bible as well… even my christian frnds back home know that there are about 75 verses supporting that…
Proverbs 4:17 – Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.
Proverbs 20:1 – Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.
Proverbs 23:19-20 – A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages.
Proverbs 23:21 – Drunkenness causes poverty.
Proverbs 23:33 – Alcohol causes the drinker to have strange and adulterous thoughts, produces willfulness, and prevents reformation.
Habakkuk 2:16 – Drinking leads to shame.
Luke 12:45 – Christ warned against drunkenness
Deuteronomy 22:22 “If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die.”
Leviticus 20:10 “If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife–with the wife of his neighbor–both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.”
— in islam the punishment for adultery is 80 lashes..according to Quran. but yes if a married person is proven to commit it… and he/she is threat to the society he/she may be put to death… or is given 80 lashes…this punishment comes for Prophet’s teaching… so this is not necessarily an obligation…
Matthew 19:9 “I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.” Wouldn’t this cause the man to be put to death?
Mark 10:11 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her.” Again, wouldn’t he then be put to death since he would have committed adultery?
Mark 10:12 “And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.” Same question I ask about the women who are considered have committed adultery. Wouldn’t they be put to death also?
Luke 16:18 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.”
In islam you can divorce you husband/wife for any reason… u can divorce for lack of sexual compatibilty… the girl may think the guy is not rich enough… etc etc and other many reasons… its not as stict as christianity…
and yes we are allowed to marry divorced person…. which christiansm does not allow…its wayy stricter…
Since some of you saying that muslims should be kicked outta west… well yeah… then let us do the campaigns for Caliphate… so that we can first kick out traitor rulers and then go back to our own land…
January 24th, 2011 at 1:56 am Caffeinated SentryGnome(Quote)
whats all those verses got to do with Australian law?
as for ban of alcohol, i don’t think it says its banned but just not to get drunk. in fact one verse says to give wine to those who have great sorrow. and jesus took a cup of wine and passed it around at the last supper.
afaik the only law Christians have in Australia that are not general safety laws is the no same sex marriage one.
January 24th, 2011 at 2:14 am Sanjana(Quote)
“If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:28)”
in islam the rapist is killed…. islam does not allow the man to marry the victim and lead a hppy life… :S…
Man-stealing was punishable with death. Ex 21:16
anyways I dont want to post any more biblic verses… coz u dont seen that much of a christian to me… :S
we muslims more or less have many verses from Quran memorised… and u dont even know your own rules? :S:S thats weird…. :S
January 24th, 2011 at 2:26 am Sanjana(Quote)
@Caffeinated SentryGnome
these verses has nothing to do with aus laws… they were a reply to some1 else.
January 24th, 2011 at 5:17 am ausGeoff(Quote)
Uh… I’ve got some truly bad news for you Sanjana…
The Christian Bible is all total bullshit, as is your Qur’an. It’s just that the fucking Qur’an is even more offensive than the Bible, if that’s at all possible.
And anybody who repeatedly quotes from either book has instantly lost their argument — whatever it was. Fairy stories and fables written by ignoramuses have NO place in a 21st century society.
January 24th, 2011 at 5:59 am Cyn(Quote)
It’s pretty damn simple. Move to a non-muslim country and RESPECT THE LAWS OF THAT COUNTRY.
Do NOT move to a non-muslim country and expect them to change the laws to suit you.
How SIMPLE is that?
Sharia Law will never be allowed in Australia. Period. We have all seen what happens when you allow a small segment of the population to have Sharia Law. They get a little too big for their britches and start believing they can impose it on others.
Good luck trying to beat Australian women in the streets for not wearing ankle length skirts. They’ll castrate you and then continue on their merry way to the beach.
So the simple and only answer is this – if you wish to live under Sharia Law…IMMIGRATE SOMEWHERE ELSE.
January 24th, 2011 at 10:04 pm Sanjana(Quote)
@ausgeoff: well have not read the full bible ever… but yeah we(muslims) believe injil (revelation sent to jesus pbuh) and the modern bible is not the same.
And about quran…. well u have not read the whole Quran how would u ever reach a conclusion anyway.. picking up verses out of context and then using then in wrong context… well then what is the difference between u kind of people and those so-called muslims who pick up wrong verses for wrong scenerio to justify their actions..
answers to 21st century problems are in the quran… and in no other man-made books.
and i do not understand… why are so many aussies thinkin we want aus to be a state of a caliphate?????? hello….. we have 57 lands to work on first…..!!! we have to bring in islam first in our lands… then probably in the next century or so we may start to think about other lands… :S:S
some people were saying that if we want caliphate in our lands then why campaigns in the west! okay.. does this question even make sense?? India has the biggest black market for human organs…. then why do so many people do campaigns against india’s black human organ market in USA Uk etc when clearly the problem lies in India…why dont they do the campaigns “Only” in India…?—-
January 25th, 2011 at 7:03 am ausGeoff(Quote)
I’m an atheist you dopey prick. Why would I even think about reading your silly “holy” book.
And I hope you’re more than satisfied with what your brothers in arms did this morning in Russia?
A Muslim suicide bomber has killed at least 35 people and wounded dozens blowing himself up in the packed arrivals hall of Moscow’s largest airport in an attack described by the Kremlin as an act of terror.
The “religion of peace” strikes again.
January 25th, 2011 at 12:26 pm Cyn(Quote)
@ausGeoff – oh, Im sure they had reason to maim and kill innocent civilians on their way to work and/or home, trying to live their lives, pay bills and feed their families….you know how PICKY those “Religion of Peace” types are…
January 25th, 2011 at 1:42 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
I’m guessing our friend Sanjana will be posting here shortly with all sorts of excuses and justification.
Uh…can you just remind me again where the verse about murdering innocent citizens is?
January 25th, 2011 at 2:41 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
@Sanjana
Religious nationalism is still nationalism. There’s zero difference as far as I can see in being utterly devoted to an Islamic state versus being utterly devoted to an existing country or state.
Caliphate in the modern world would be a nation, full of religiously devoted nationalists.
And so will Caliphate. There’s a lot of people on this planet who don’t want to live under an Islamic system and quite a few of them live in ‘muslim lands’. It’s naive to think that such a heavily religious based form of government won’t divide those who follow (any) religion and those that don’t.
And how exactly are you going to get all the various factions of Islam to play ball together? Half the time it’s muslims blowing up other muslims in the middle east.
And here’s where the dividing problems begin. Marijuana is a drug with medically observable negative side effects. Your creator and prophet mean nothing to me and as such what you refer to as blasphemous nonsense might very well fall under comedy or light hearted entertainment for me.
So why should I be punished for it? The only side effect of mocking prophets and your creator (or anyone’s creator) is a few bruised egos.
Deal with it.
Laws based around secular values and morals are fine, laws pertaining to specific beliefs that are non applicable to a section of the population purely based on a question of faith, are unacceptable in any form of government.
There’s some dead train passengers in Moscow who’d probably want to have a word with you if they… y’know, weren’t dead and all that.
No doubt the purpetrators might call it something else but at the end of the day the reasons for their actions boil down to the same thing, ‘in the name of allah and for an islamic state’.
Religious nationalism (being utterly devoted to a state formed on religious government), is still nationalism.
I don’t consider old=perfect, but if a country is home to the largest majority population of what is considered to be the oldest surviving religion in the world, how can you claim the country is a bastion of another religion?
Oh, and as for your one god logic… so if I decided to start up the OzSoapbox religion today on January 25th, 2011, so long as I included ‘submission to one god’ I too could claim OzSoapbox is the world’s oldest religion?
Wafer thin reasoning there.
I’m not a doctor, but I believe it’s because of the medically observable side effects (note that my support for or against legalising marijuana use is irrelevant to this discussion).
Not really. If talking negatively about marijuana was illegal though then I’d have some serious concerns to raise.
Travelling to an existing countr is fair enough. What happens when I live in a country that gets overtaken by radicals and decides to employ a Caliphate form of government? Yeah… this won’t divide anyone at all.
You operate on the assumption that there are nations out there with 100% devoted Isalmic followers all in favour of Caliphate. I guarantee you there’d be at least one person in any country that decided to adopt Caliphate, that would be opposed to Caliphate.
They don’t seem to have much choice in the matter.
As for the bible quotes, I see a lot of shoulds there regarding hair covering, but nothing explicitly mentioning punishments or rule of law.
As for alcohol, again, alot of warnings and suggestions about abuse – but nothing saying it’s forbidden. And divorce? Well it’s good to know I can divorce someone for petty reasons in Islam too… but what about criticising religion and all the other things I’m not allowed to do?
To an umarried person divorce is hardly a pursuasive argument to live under Caliphate (and before you mention your muslim lands again, I repeat that I guarantee you there are some non-muslims living in these muslim lands of yours).
And no I’m not Christian, and I’m quite glad we don’t employ a crazy extremist form of Christian government either. I’d be just as equally opposed to that as I am an Islamic form of government.
I’m certainly not Christian and to be quite frank see the Bible as having as much irrelevancy on my day to day life as the Quran. Couldn’t really give a crap about what is in either book to be honest.
Because India is the supplier to an international market. Convince the international market the harm the black market human organ industry causes and you cut off demand. No demand = no supply and the Indians will have nobody to sell to.
February 6th, 2011 at 12:07 am Sanjana(Quote)
This would be my last post.
Well I was about to reply to your current post… then suddenly I read ur first post…. Lolzz… that is when I realised its sooo useless to debate/discuss/or whtever u call it- with u.
So u mean someone can criticise the government in a democratic environment but CANNOT talk against the whole system? As in… it is WRONG to speak anything against the entire system.
HOWEVER…. In a caliphate a non muslim are allowed to criticize the government… but stopping them from speaking against the entire system (islam) is BAD? Is Unjust? Is Unfair???
Why double standard dear??? U cant tolerate anyone talkin anything against ‘ur’ holy system…. But if we object that non muslim citizens of a Caliphate should not talk against our holy system… that is unfair????????
Can u please justify your position here? Why is such kind of double standard?
Btw I think I saw some comments where people were shouting ‘I don’t want to change my aussie living style’. I don’t get it… Caliphate would come in muslim world NOT here… still some people have problem in understanding?
Anyways.. okay lets rationalise…
Suppose a caliphate gets eastablished by 2012… and u fearing that aus might become a caliphate state by, say, 2050.
I want to ask u guys… how many of u are ACTUALLY indigenous?? Because as far as we studied in school about aus history… convicts were sent to aus… and u guys are their decendents (um igonoring the migrants)….most of u are aussie cos of ur national id card… or ur passport… as simple as that. and when u guys came & u imposed ur ‘own laws’ and ‘values’… the aborigines never wanted ur western lifestyle… they never wanted ur democracy… they never wanted ur capitalism…. But still u guys forcefully imposed those on them… didn’t u?
Because according to u guys ‘ur ideas, laws, system’ were better and superior… even though they were rejected by the natives… u guys didn’t care… did u?
Now suppose by 2050 the caliphate get so strong that the aussie muslims (those who are aussie coz of passports and national ids.. just like u guys) feel the need for Aus to become a caliphate state… and ofcourse for that… those muslims would impose sharia’h law in Aus… because according to them sharia’h is superior… but acc to u guys its not…
But hey!! Don’t I see double standard here… ?! oh yeah ofcourse I do. When u guys impose certain laws on the natives… u guys don’t see that as an unfair act… but if muslims (ever in future) impose sharia’h on u guys… then that’s unfair….???
Honestly I see your ability to rationalize situations…. And I thnk it would be useless to further debate with u… because u keep on contradicting urslf. So answering to ur baseless useless charges/ questions would be a waste of time.
Hope u see the truth very soon. Hope u see the destruction capitalism brings in very soon. Hope u see that ‘democracy-power to the people’ is nothing but a myth real very soon.
February 6th, 2011 at 12:15 am Sanjana(Quote)
U dont validate ur statements at all…
how do u know the bombings were done by muslims in moscow…
because till now ur loving USA or Uk govt could not even prove thier towers crash and train bombs done by any muslims… but on the basis of ‘guess’ they went to muslim lands to kill muslim civilians and bribing the puppet rulers they have set there.
Btw till now u used to hear taliban does all the bombing…
( USA is not getting far using Al qaeda craps… coz pretty much every1 started to question why did USA bother to form Al Qaeda in the first place if they could not control them at the end.)
So yeah… when we muslims were shouting out that it is indeed Blackwater and dynacorp (USA’s org) doing all the bombings and kidnappings… no1 believed us… but now that finally few months back Reuters came out with the news that all bombings and kidnappings in Pakistan are done by pak govt backed USA’s blackwater and dynacorp…
people have finally started to realise… but im sooo sure… u guys wont even bother to look on to this… cause u are already brainwashed.
So as I see… u make claims which let alone u… even those govts could not even shopw proofs of…. and u keep on contradicting urslf…. i thnk it would be wise… to stop replying to u anymore.
February 6th, 2011 at 12:29 am ausGeoff(Quote)
Best news I’ve heard all day!
Well, as a fourth generation Aussie, I certainly consider myself indigenous — according to the actual meaning of the word — having originated in and growing, or living naturally, in a particular region or environment. This is simply a specious argument on your part intended to deflect us from the thrust of this thread.
This is a straw man argument, and has nothing to do at all with Islam or sharia law. Not worth responding to. Sorry.
Ha ha… will never happen. Islam can only succeed in underdeveloped third-world countries. The largely secular Australian population is too well educated and enlightened to swallow any of your silly Islamic dogma.
I wish the same for you my friend. In your case though, the “truth” is that Islam is doomed to fail, and people such as yourself, with your crippling Dark Ages mentality will cease to be a force on the world stage.
Anybody, like you, who has unquestioning faith in the tenets of an old book of fairy tales that’s demonstrably a load of crap is bound to ultimately fall to the forces of 21st-century logic and scientific enlightenment. I can only pity fundamentalist Muslims… no, make that all Muslims. You’re dead men walking.
February 6th, 2011 at 4:27 am Cyn(Quote)
@Sanjaya
“I want to ask u guys… how many of u are ACTUALLY indigenous?? Because as far as we studied in school about aus history… convicts were sent to aus… and u guys are their decendents (um igonoring the migrants)….most of u are aussie cos of ur national id card… or ur passport… as simple as that.”
I am Australian, I was born there, I was raised there and that’s all there is to it. So, no, it’s not “as simple” as holding a passport. As far as I’m concerned, I AM indigenous to Australia.
First of all a quick history lesson for you – Only SOME Australians are descended from convicts – I guess your so-called history lessons forgot to mention the thousands of free settlers who also came out to Australia.
“so non-religious people should be aware of the rules of an islamic state…. he/she should be smart enough to behave properly…”
Firstly, being non-Muslim does not make one non-religious.
Secondly, IF one is visiting a Muslim country, then yes one should be smart enough to behave properly. BUT OH IF ONLY THIS WENT BOTH WAYS. How about when Muslims are living in a NON-Muslim state, YOU be smart enough to behave accordingly.
Muslims seem to be able to leave freely in many democratic, Western non-Muslim countries. It’s a shame that’s not reciprocated.
If a country is forcibly taken over? Then no. You can go to hell. YOU live your Muslim ways and leave the rest of the population the hell alone.
February 6th, 2011 at 4:46 am Cyn(Quote)
@Sanjana
You mean, they couldn’t prove that the Islamic extremists who took over the planes and killed everyone, actually did it?
Gee. I dunno: Because they admitted it?
So if you can’t have you own Muslim state IN A NON-MUSLIM COUNTRY, then what? You just start killing all the non-Muslims until there’s none left??
And, somehow, you’re still wondering why no one likes you.
February 7th, 2011 at 4:24 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
@Sanjana
Dunno how far along your comprehension is, but that’s certainly not what was stated there. Obviously you can criticise the entire system in democracy thus your hypocrisy/double standard argument is irrelevant.
I am. Was born in Australia, I didn’t migrate from anywhere.
No I didn’t. Some guys did a couple of hundred years ago. By the time I was born there was a well established tried and true system in place.
There’s a bit of a difference between establishing a system of government when there is none and replacing an established form of government.
The Aboriginies might not have put up much of a fight when the British took over a couple of hundred years ago but you can bet there’d be a battle royale if the nutjobs of any religous attempted to establish a fundamental religious form of government in Australia.
Look how much conundrum there was over just removing the Queen as our head of state, let alone replacing the entire government system. Good luck with that.
Mind you, I’m well aware it’d be a gradual process and I’m sure you’re well aware of that too. It’s not like Australia would wake up one day to being a Sharia country. Over time there’d be a shift towards Islamic religious policy and that’s why people like me are there oppossing it every step of the way.
July 4th, 2011 at 4:25 pm nuttela(Quote)
I attended
it was good.
Look, i know that im gonna be trolled and hated on this, that is a no-brainer. but think about it, yes they use democracy to preach the ways but either way. they were going to
they are banned in some middle eastern countries…. before u say “oh look, even their own nations hate em” think about it. why? cos the people ruling that country are power hungry fellatio giving ball sucking western wannabes who want to please the western nations, so they can stay in power. what u see on the news, and what is really happening is contrastedd like black and white. they arent the same the “2 people who died at the “dangerous” protests werent two people” they were hundreds wounded, and dozens killed, and their protests. like every other street rally.
i know and you know that our source of info is from the internet, is from the tv, is from the newspaper, is from the people who dislike islam. can you blame them for iserting their opinions and shoving it down your throat so u can be as hateful and as bothered as those 10-15 people who came to protest against the conference… which is fine, but the irony was they had a banner saying “support the majority, and not the minority” which is funny cos they were 15 ppl max, while there was over a thousand inside the place
dont make a fool out of yourself, everyone can preach whatever u guys want, any one can protest, and just cos it might be ur vegemite (urgh) doesnt mean everyone is like you,
im 17, i live in this country, live in the west ( most of you assume i want you dead ) i dont. im just saying that the bullshit u get in these articles and the media are 10% of reality and 90% vomit
you would be foolish to believe these articles
August 18th, 2011 at 11:11 pm Eyad(Quote)
@ ozsoapbox
what’s wrong with you and Islam man …. all your ideas are poisoned strongly
August 19th, 2011 at 1:01 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Are my ideas (I think you mean opinions) poisoned or is Islam itself poisoned?
I don’t make any of this happen…
August 19th, 2011 at 9:57 am PeterF57(Quote)
It seems we have another moronic follower of this filth we call islam, one who just parrots what his vile imam idiots want him too, one who is blinded by this vile ideology and one who just must get out to the world how wonderful and peaceful this slime is. Did I get enough adjectives in there describing this pus? Oops, there’s another one. I have a lot more but that will do?
So continue on Eeyore, continue on defending this vileness. A vileness that, by all means, can be practised in those cesspools of countries that allow it, countries that are steeped in backwardness and live in times best described as neanderthal, like back in the caveman days where lives have not progressed for aeons.
But not in Australia, where we have civilisation and laws that allow equality for all, not laws that allow little dicked men who need to lord it over their women and have their clitorises cut off so their manhood seems bigger because they have no need to allow these women some fun and pleasure, like normal folk do.
Truly pathetic specimens of ‘manhood’, truly truly pathetic. Be proud Eeyore, defending this chancrous scabby blight on humanity.
August 19th, 2011 at 1:57 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
So apparently we have another Islamic sympathiser in our midst?
The only people with “poisoned” ideas are the Islamic fundamentalists trying to infiltrate Western countries with their primitive ant-establishment views.
If you’re (apparently) so keen to defend Islam, may I suggest a one-way ticket to Afghanistan or Pakistan? You’d enjoy it.