Sorry, but the army doesn’t make you take up smoking
I don’t profess to know about the horrors of war. Following the second world war and arguably Vietnam, my generation has only ever been involved in faux wars that, for the most part, have been fought on television screens.
Despite this however I can appreciate the unique environment that a military occupation creates. One in which the surreal becomes real and you’re put to the test in unimaginable ways.
One veteran in particular has seized this window of opportunity and sought to capitalize on it.
The reason?
Apparently the joining the army forces you to smoke.
Veteran John Arnold served in the Australian army between 1963 and 1987, during which time he claims he was ‘pressured by peers into smoking‘.
This pressure it is claimed arose due to the long hours of inactivity that fighting for the army inevitably brings with it.
In the army, the tribunal said, “it was common for there to be rest breaks which were referred to as ‘cigarette breaks’.
Sometimes, these cigarette breaks turned into long periods of inactivity which (Mr Arnold) remarked as being typical of the army.
During the cigarette breaks, his friends would offer him cigarettes and eventually, under quite significant peer pressure, he accepted, and that is when the smoking habit began.”
surprisingly Arnold has since developed colorectal cancer.
Now one could make the argument that seeing as his mates offered him cigarettes and the army failed to provide him something to do, that it’s directly the Army, and by proxy the government’s fault that Arnold has now developed cancer.
Yes, you could make that argument.
Or alternatively, you could feel some shame in being a cash hungry opportunist and just accept that your cancer is a direct result of your own actions. Nobody forced you to take up smoking.
But why would you?
After initially knocking back Arnold’s compensation claim, last week a tribunal at the Department of Veterans Affairs overturned the decision and opened the flood gates for government compensation.
The same government who y’know, did nothing more then provide Arnold with a regular paycheck. If anything go after the cigarette company’s or your mates who introduced you to the habit… why expect us taxpayers to foot the bill?
Don’t get me wrong, if you’re injured in the line of duty then by all means the government and taxpayers should look after you – I’ve got no problems with that. If you’re sitting around on your arse smoking cigarettes however, why should you expect Australia to foot the bill when you get sick?
By 1987 it was more then clear that cigarette smoking affected your health and I’m willing to bet that on behalf of John Arnold, there was absolutely no attempt to kick the habit until his health started to fade – much the same as most smokers these days.
“I’ll give up one day” is an all too familiar catchcry with that one day of course being when somebody gives you the bad news that you’re dying.
Thankfully the Veteran’s Affairs are looking to appeal the decision and lets hope they win, if not for the taxpayer then for at least common sense. How cases like this in which people are clearly looking for someone else to blame ever surface is beyond me. One would think there’d be procedure in place to slap them down before they ever got off the ground.
Meanwhile I can’t wait for the obesity compensation claims to start rolling in. Lunch is a pretty universal term for that midday snack that most of us enjoy. During this ‘lunch’ most people have ample spare time in which to indulge themselves.
‘My workplace failed to provide me with something to do on what were commonly referred to as ‘lunch’ breaks. After intense peer pressure I caved in and started eating food during these ‘lunch’ breaks.
Now I weigh 300kg, have diabetes and have had eight heart attacks.
- SHOW ME THE MONEY!’
Coming soon to a court room near you.
September 8th, 2010 at 6:50 pm PeterF57(Quote)
Cannot believe the softcock DVA did a backflip on this. And you’re right OzBoy, it will open the floodgates. ‘SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!’ will definitely be in vogue now, and all because this pathetic man was too pathetic to say no to all this horrendous pressure he was put under. I wouldn’t be surprised if his Army mates didn’t put bamboo under the fingernails just so he and all the others would smoke.
And what about those who didn’t succumb to this disgustingly foul habit. Can they also sue because they felt left out, traumatised and ostracised by those big tough he-gays smoking.
I served 23 years in the Navy, and yes, we also had periods of inactivity, especially on weekends on a 12 hour watch at the CommStas at Harman or Coonawarra, or the 6 hour night watches at sea. And for many years until 1988, when the government finally decided to ban smoking in government buildings (and that was a decision not based on the welfare of the troops, it was based on the threat of litigation from blokes like me if ever I did get cancer [that's my opinion anyway]), and still I had to go to the top to have it banned at Harman, 3 years after the fact.
I just love these blokes and blokettes in government departments, who just love spending taxpayers’ money, it’s not coming from their pockets, so why not be altruistic with other people’s money. Hey, sounds very similar to a socialist government’s way of thinking.
So, to sum up, this decision is ridiculous. And once again highlights that it seems nobody in today’s society is to blame for their own actions.
Thanks progressive government bodies. What a bunch of total fwits.
September 8th, 2010 at 8:20 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
I’m glad some in the armed forces were against smoking. I always cringe when I see old movies/documentaries showing everyone smoking.
I know it was the done thing at the time but still, even health concerns aside I don’t know how people do it. I’ve always been anti-smoking. I don’t go badgering people in the streets or anything but I do find the habit a huge turn off.
I love the irony about joining the army and then suing the government because apparently doing so has shortened your lifespan. I mean it’s not like the army is dangerous or anything.
September 25th, 2010 at 8:47 pm bushrat(Quote)
yep, ok, now this is something that I have unfortunately had personal experience with.
I joined the Army in 1968, signed up for six years, and was loving it. Until I got sick – developed a hiatus hernia – and was unable to eat or drink anything that upset the gut. If I drank beer or even coke, I would get violently ill, and I mean VIOLENTLY ILL.
I had the great misfortune to be posted to a unit which will remain nameless – where drinking beer in large quantities at the end of the day was virtually mandatory. As I was unable to do this, I was initially labled a “snob”, then ostracised, and then the beatings started.
Also sweet little tricks like sugar in the fuel tank of my car, letting down the tyres, more beatings (without provocation, day or night). I ended up having a complete meltdown and getting discharged.
Now forty two years on, I still suffer from insomnia and depression, and a lot of related health problems, and have had NO HELP AT ALL from the DVA. I only thank god that I didnt end up serving in a frontline situation where I would have needed these cowardley arseholes to watch my back.
As far as the DVA being softcocks, no they are not. I have been trying for years to be compensated for this and other more serious events that I wont go into here, and keep getting fucked off, having things like the “1930 act” chucked at me or “can you prove it?”
No, I cant prove it, “did you report it?” yes “oh, theres no record of it”
So when you talk about “peer pressure” you should all remember that it can take not only the mild form that we all immediately think of, but can rapidly escalate to violence, that is guaranteed to make the victim comply. Then you have a problem with addiction.
By the way, when I went in I was a one cigarette on a saturday night bloke, when I came out I smoked like a steam train – stress relief – but try telling anyone that and automatically they think your on the great compo gravy train.
What about these scumbag illegals who flood into our country and get all sorts of money thrown at them? Far more than an Aussie born pensioner (who has paid tax and worked all thier life gets).
Yet there are those who begrudge this bloke who was prepared to do his bit in service of his country his compensation?
Believe me, if it wasnt fair dinkum he wouldnt be getting it.
Sorry guys, but this is crap, leave the guy alone. I’ve “been there – done that” I hope they give him a million bucks for his misfortune, even though I’m sure he would rather have his health back!
September 27th, 2010 at 3:26 am PeterF57(Quote)
Sorry bushrat, the DVA are softcocks for allowing this idiot compensation, and I don’t care if he did serve our country during wartime.
All smokers are idiots, the Army did not force him to smoke, and like all idiots these days, he won’t take personal responsibility for his actions.
As for the DVA being softcocks. It sounds like you have much more of a case for compensation than this smoking tool, what with your hernia, and for the beatings and other idiotic happenings, but you aren’t getting any and this tool is.
I’m all for compensation when it is necessary, but this is just like handing out the filthy lucre to blackfellas just for being black, or the white trash who don’t want to work.
And the only misfortune this idiot has is his being an idiot for smoking. A million dollars for being an idiot. Man, you have your priorities all fucked up here.
September 27th, 2010 at 12:42 pm bushrat(Quote)
Yair, maybe you are right,but…… we dont know, nor will we ever know what pressures were applied to him to join in. That was the point of me telling of my own experience. Had I caved in to the peer pressure, I would probably have turned out a piss tank alcoholic. There but for the grace of god etc.
All I am saying is this; I have been going through this process for years now, and the hoops they (DVA) make you jump through are unbelievable. If you want to take the matter to an Administrative Affairs Tribunal level, you will likely be up against a DVA hired legal team.
Which of course means that should you lose your case, you could be liable for costs, or worse, declared a vexatious litigant. Big money to pay them back if you dont have it!
It’s not easy, and if your claim hasnt got legs, its not going to succeed. These people are not pushovers by any stretch of the imagination.
So to be quite clear about what I am saying let me re-state my point of view:
IF this bloke suffered serious peer pressure and was FORCED to smoke, by means of intimidation, threats, being held back in rank etc., then he should be compensated.
If he was NOT suffering serious peer pressure, and gave in to mild ridicule, then I would agree with your point of view.
Therefore, given my own experience, I have to admit bias, and give him the benefit of the doubt.
I do however agree with you 100% about dosh being handed out to dole bludgers and on the basis of race.
Not to mention that infamous case in Sydney some years back where the bloke was told he had to leave the pub cause he had no shoes on, won a meat raffle, got maggoted, tied two pork chops on his feet as “thongs”, slipped arse over head, broke something and got a couple of hundred grand for it!
In short, the country is all fucked up, and there is no consistancy in anything except the chaotic, ad hoc way it is run by our elected elite.
September 27th, 2010 at 4:38 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
@bushrat
Whilst I sympathise with your situation, if you reported it how can there be no record of it. I know industrial relations has come a long way since ’68 but surely if you made complaints and what not they were filed somewhere?
If you’ve still got observable symptoms and can get certified help wouldn’t that count as proof as to the origins of your problems?
I still think in either case the responsibility falls on the individual rather then the tax payer. If the army fails to provide a bully free environment then hold those accountable… awarding massive compo claims to individuals just takes money that could be used elsewhere for greater benefit.
September 27th, 2010 at 11:37 pm bushrat(Quote)
The only SAFE option I had at the time was to report it to an army psyhciatrist (since I was suffering a fair bit of stress as a result). He sat there and took about three foolscap pages of notes, and years later when I got my records this had been reduced to a few scant paragraphs including the sentance “seems to be having trouble with his peers within the unit” . Yep, understatement of the year, 1968!!!
Then of course, there is the fact that back then it was all paper records. In my case, particularly my medical records, some are with the Army, some are with ComSuper (DFRB as it was back then) the rest are, well who the fuck knows?
A lady at ComSuper told me once on the telephone that there is a huge building in Canberra somewhere full of paper records, so ok, how about some volunteers to go looking for the proof? NAAAH! Never gonna happen!
Then of course, look at one of our most tragic military disasters, when the HMAS Voyager was cut in two during exercises. Those survivors had to wait decades in some cases for compo, and got fought by the government at every step.
Is anyone suggesting that a trauma like having to listen to your mates drown and being able to do nothing is not going to cause problems? Would any decent person deny THEM compensation for a lifetime of nightmares?
Now I know that the suffering of this bloke we are talking about cant be compared to that event any more than my own can, but, there is still the issue of fairness, and taking each case on its merits.
No. I have no witnesses, except one of the few decent blokes in the unit, who, when last I saw him several years ago, was suffering from advanced Alzhiemers disease – I would not even consider involving him for this reason – not fair to him. I know I am pushing shit uphill with a needle, but fuck it, I’m right to persue this, after all, I did nothing wrong. It’s called principle.
Yes, agreed, but most of these bastards (hopefully) have become sick, feeble and suffering old farts themselves.
May thier ears turn to assholes and cack all over thier shoulders!
You can take it from this comment that I have not forgotten or forgiven!
Aint Karma a bitch?!
Anyways, there were a lot of other things that befell me, of a far darker nature, which as I said I am not going to go into here, as it’s probably not relevant to the discussion, besides, the matter is still ongoing.
The bottom line is this; This is NOT an isolated case of “peer pressure” causing the ruination of the lives of servicemen. We are talking about inexperienced people often very young, thrown into an environment which they (we) have (had) no experience in dealing with.
Then spending the rest of thier ruined lives trying to live with the results, and that aint easy, let me tell you.
The fact is, that in many of these cases, the employer has FAILED in thier duty of care, which from your post I am sure you are aware of PeterF57, these days thankfully, this tends to be taken a lot more seriously than it was back then.
But still every so often we hear of a young soldier, sailor, or airman, taking his or her life because of bullying and bastardisation.
Sorry, it’s not acceptable, neither is stupid bloody peer pressure, and compensation should be available to the victims.
But the crazy thing is, that If I had my time over, would once again enlist, as I loved the army life. I was just unfortunate to land in a unit amply stocked with arseholes.
September 28th, 2010 at 12:02 am PeterF57(Quote)
Fair enough points there bushrat. Never heard of the pork chop tool and his payout, but there you have it, in a nutshell, what our country has become. A mini USA. And you can thank these wonderful progressive governments for that.
September 28th, 2010 at 10:35 am bushrat(Quote)
Yep, it all started with the Whitlam government, and took off like a stabbed rat from there. The laws on just about everything now are so much more draconian and unfair/unworkable than the good ‘ole days. Frankly it just makes me sick, you only need look at the family laws to see just what we have become, if anything, we are getting to be much WORSE tha America.
September 28th, 2010 at 3:53 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
@bushrat
Any reason given or were the army generally pretty crappy at keeping records back in the day?
I kinda look at it in the same way such a big fuss is made when a soldier dies. It’s the army… dying is kind of an occupational hazard.
Having said that I’m thankful that they do join (perhaps not so much when we’re fighting in countries halfway across the world for no good reason – we’ve got enough problems at home that need sorting), but I still think the media go a bit overboard everytime someone dies.
Anyone would think soldiers dying was completely and utterly unexpected.
Your case sounds different to the smoker guys so by all means go for it. Case in point you didn’t turn into a raging alcoholic.
Well the irony being that upon hearing of cases like this, they’re probably more likely to start up their own compo claims for their shot livers or alcoholic depression ‘because the army made them do it’.
Like you said, providing proof from the army side is hard enough and if they’ve got a few mates to back them up and there’s tangible damage they can produce as evidence, continued precedents like this are going to make it very easy for them.
Meanwhile people like you with less tangible scars are still going to have a hard time.
Glad the experience wasn’t a total write off for you.