Threatening police with knives is apparently gentle
A few days ago police dropped off mentally ill Elijah Holcombe to a psychiatric hospital. He had been reported missing by his parents and had not taken his medication in two days.
Before he could be assessed properly, Holcombe managed to escape from the hospital and once again was at large. Upon learning of his escape police then tracked Holcombe down and pursued him through a shopping mall.
Allegedly ‘scared’ by police, Holcombe stole a knife from a cafe and then later when the police finally cornered him in an alley, he turned and threatened the police with it.
With the minutes ticking away and Holcombe refusing to drop the weapon and still threatening police officers with it, a difficult decision was made.
A single shot was fired and the body of Elijah Holcombe slumped to the ground. He died at the scene.
Usually this is the part where all the bleeding hearts in unison sing about how the police could have done more or how society was to blame for putting the knife in Holcombe’s hand. It isn’t often that family member’s speak out about such things but in this case Holcombe’s wife (who hides behind the veil of anonymity), lashes out at police and describes Holcombe as the “most gentle human being I have ever known”.
She said police should be “ashamed of themselves” for killing her beloved Elijah Holcombe, gunned down after being cornered in a lane in the northern NSW town of Armidale on Tuesday.
Mrs. Holcombe’s accusations do raise the rather interesting questions of just what should the police have done in the face of threats from an armed attacker? It is well documented that a threat armed with a knife is often more dangerous then one armed with a gun:
For those people that think guns are more dangerous than knives, think again. More than 60% of all people shot with firearms even multiple times survive the attack. Cutting and stabbing victims don’t do nearly as well.
Bullet wounds self-seal because of the elastic nature of human tissue. Knife cuts lay open and bleed profusely as the veins and arteries are opened wide.
They could have talked to him and offered him some coffee but again, who’s going to volunteer to get close enough for this to work? A man with a knife can run awfully fast if he wants to and all it takes is one fatal stab for preventable loss of life to occur.
The FBI has conducted research into this very topic and concluded that even from twenty one feet away a knife threat can still be lethal;
on the perceived advantage of a gun over a knife they relate the research that has taken place at the FTU (Firearms Training Unit) and FBI Headquarters in Quantico, Virginia where within 21 feet a man with a knife is perfectly capable of getting within range of an officer with a handgun and injuring or killing him:
“the harsh reality in such circumstance is that unless the shot happens to hit the attacker in the central nervous system, the attack will succeed… At closer ranges, the attack was successful before the agent could raise his weapon and fire a shot”
Didn’t think so.
On June 02, 2009 one man was taken down and all officers involved were able to return home. This I believe is the best possible outcome as the risk is simply too great in dealing with a mentally unstable knife weilding threat.
Whether you’re looking at the harsh reality of the situation or gazing at what might have been through the rose tinted glasses of a wife, at the end of the day if you’re going to threaten police with a knife, expect to be taken down.
Had police tried to peacefully disarm Holcombe and been fatally injured you can bet your bottom dollar the ‘oh but I had mental illness’ defense would have been dragged out and Holcombe would have been sentenced to thirty minutes community service.
I know which outcome I prefer.
Note: If you wish to comment on this article I do not care if your best friends with the family and think everyone else should be as emotionally affected by this as you might be. If you’re comment is nothing more then ‘ug ug insults ug ug more insults ug ug *chest beating* ug ug’ then don’t bother, your comment will not be approved.
Discussion is encouraged, wasting my time with random insults is not.
June 5th, 2009 at 1:59 am peter(Quote)
unless police think that there or anyone elses life is in threat they shouldnt se lethal force. i have been through depression and it can make you think very bad things about society . lethal force is never allright unless the officerss felt like they were dead unless they killed this person .
June 5th, 2009 at 2:01 am peter(Quote)
maybe a few knee shots might have been more effective had he tryed attacking police. which he didnt .
he was stationary the entire time of the problem .
June 5th, 2009 at 7:29 am Justine(Quote)
I did not know Elijah, but am friends with a friend of his.. and if he is anything like she is, then he was completely well-natured and incredible. Although you may argue that he had a knife and that he was threatening the police, if you read articles published online, it is written that he had a BUTTER knife, not a steak knife or machete. The damage he could have done, if given the chance, would be minimal with that “weapon.”
Although I do agree that the loss of one man is better than the loss of several, I do not think that there should have been a victim at all in this situation. He will be severely missed by his friends and family.
June 5th, 2009 at 7:47 am Amanda Cole(Quote)
That is the whole point of why the Man was shot because the Police felt that he was a danger to Society I do feel sorry for him & the fact that he had a severe mental illness but I do know the Police give you fair warning to comply peacefully with their requests to “drop your weapon” & the decision to shoot a person is one made in a split second under the extreme duress of “shoot or be shot” whether this applies directly to them or an innocent memeber of society Remember it’s the Police Force’s Job to “Protect & Serve” there are no winners in this story The Victim’s Family have lost a Son & Partner & the Police Officer involved will have to live with fatally wounding another Human Being albeit in the “Line of Duty” Take Care & Peace to all involved
June 5th, 2009 at 12:31 pm MGA(Quote)
ozsoapbox you’re a complete ass. way to have absolutely no compassion towards the mentally ill. why don’t you write about something else. your insentitive, sarcastic, matter of fact writing is the last thing people should be reading about this tragic event. have some respect.
June 5th, 2009 at 12:50 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
@Peter If someone has mental illness the cops have no idea how they will behave.
Add to that the fact they don’t what medication or recreational drugs the person might be on and it’s kind of a big ask for them to risk personal safety and subdue the threat. Especially since all non-letal options require officers to easily breach the safety distance of a threat armed with a knife.
Shooting kneecaps and all works in the movies but again given the unpredictability of a mentally ill person and/or the effects of drugs he might be on (which again police don’t know) is it worth taking the risk of angering the threat anymore if he’s not incapacitated by the shot?
Also what if they miss?
@Justine I couldn’t find any reference to a butter knife, what articles are you referencing?
Even if it was a butter knife it’s still easy to stab someone with one.
@MGA So what should people be reading about then? All aboard the police-bashing bandwagon.
June 6th, 2009 at 9:38 am Amanda Cole(Quote)
In reply to “MGA” Do you know me? I don’t think so?!!! if you bothered to read my post properly I said that I felt sorry for Mr Holcombe & the fact that he had a Mental Illness WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY IS that the Police have a very stressful job & a duty of care to protect the Public from harm & that while Mr Holcombe lost his life the Police don’t have time when a person is brandishing a knife to ascertain whether they are Mentally Ill & not actually going to hurt anyone other than themselves or whether they intentions are more sinister I apologise for offending you or anyone else as that was never my intention I was merely expressing my opinion as is my right as an Australian Citizen!!
June 6th, 2009 at 11:04 am Cuteface(Quote)
@MGA-
I know you show a lot of compassion toward mental illness, however, none of us here at this site is in anyway showing disrespect toward anyone suffers / suffered from mental illness.
Since you are very passionate about mental illness, I suggest you to go and do more research and reading on mental illness. As a matter of fact, the more people read and write about it the more it helps the society to understand the disorders…
June 8th, 2009 at 11:07 am Allison(Quote)
I am Elijah Holcombe’s wife, the one you suggest hides behind “the veil anonymity”. At the time I wanted to remain anonymous because I didn’t want the media hounding me like they have been since my identity has been released.
Your article is one of the saddest attempts of journalism I have encountered. Your “references” are completely misleading as they are only sources quoting, quoting sources, and so on. You fail to site even one direct source in your literature. Furthermore one of your “souces” for your pathetic article is a video that has been removed from google video, I hardly think that qualifies as being “well documented”, as you refer to it.
Anyways if you want to read legitimate, thought provoking editorials by a real journalist please visit this site: http://www.northerndailyleader.com.au/news/opinion/editorial/general/inquest-too-late-for-answers/1533986.aspx?storypage=0
June 8th, 2009 at 12:24 pm Cuteface(Quote)
@ Allison -
I am sorry for your loss, truly am. None of us here should judge Elijah because no one would have known him as well as you would have. Although I don’t like people using mental illness as a free card to get out of jail sentences, I do feel for you.
I have to admit that personally, I don’t show as much respect as I used to toward our police officers now. As from my personal experiences, I feel that I am somehow disappointed in some of our officers.
I hope you are coping well and may your beloved husband rest in peace.
June 8th, 2009 at 6:41 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
@Allison Firstly I’m not a journalist. I don’t have the resources of a newsroom nor do I represent the media.
Now I read the article you linked and from it I decyphered two things.
1. Police took Elijah to mental hospital where he was immediately assesed and deemed a voluntary patient.
So to classify him as voluntary they obviously deemed he wasn’t mentally ill or mentally disordered. Thus he was placed in an insecure room and left the hospital.
2. Police then gave pursuit to a man they had dropped off a mental institution after receiving information from his parents he was mentally ill.
What followed was a showdown between someone the hospital had declared not mentally ill or disordered and the police. For all we know they just might have wanted to question him, obviously they’d be a bit puzzled having just dropped him off earlier that day.
Elijah might have been a teddy bear to you but on that day he was just another random threatening police with a knife. If you need another reference to the 21 feet threat threshold here’s one;
Here’s a book excerpt from the book ‘Tools of Violence‘:
Either Elijah had mental problems, in which case I’d be taking it up with the hospital, or he didn’t, in which case he refused a police directive to disarm and was subsequently shot.
Sorry for your loss but lets not let our emotions cloud the fact that police aren’t out there to risk their lives when presented with armed threats. Even though I disagree with you, I appreciate you taking the time to contribute to the discussion.
June 8th, 2009 at 8:12 pm Cuteface(Quote)
@ Oz -
Sorry but I disagree with you that ‘police are out there to risk their lives’… because if they really are out there risking for all us citizens, then they would think twice before pull that trigger… In fact, ANY trigger. They DO NOT want to risk their lives therefor using their power and authority to terminate what they would have considered as a threat…
June 8th, 2009 at 8:21 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
If you read what I said you’d see that I stated it’s not their job to risk their lives when faced with an armed threat.
June 8th, 2009 at 8:28 pm Cuteface(Quote)
Alright fair enough. So they are out there risking us citizens lives instead?! Sorry but I’ve lost my respect toward polices slowly…
June 8th, 2009 at 8:30 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
It’s quite simple, if you threaten police with a knife and then refuse to disarm you go from citizen to armed threat.
I do not expect police to risk their lives negotiating with non-compliant armed threats.
June 8th, 2009 at 8:39 pm Cuteface(Quote)
True. Having said that, all stories are always ‘he said, she said’. You are not at the scene so how can you determine if it’s a threat or self-defence? I am not saying I know the full story, but I certainly do not agree with you 100% sure it’s definately a threat. If the document and source that Alison provided is accurate enough, Elijah suffered from phobia and paranoia with a fear of police, but he had absolutely no criminal history or history of violence, and he was off his medication for two days prior to his death.
Individual who suffers from certain phobia without medication for even one day can have severe hallucination or delusion. When the polices already knew Elijah suffered from such phobia, instead of shotting him lethally I’m sure there are other way around it. But you know what? They chose the easy way out, shot the trouble maker and end of the story!!!
June 8th, 2009 at 10:12 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
The police that wound up following him to an alley most likely weren’t the same that were briefed by his grandparents on his condition.
Don’t forget this all happened in the same day so most likely a report hadn’t been filed yet back at the station. Between him leaving the hospital and being spotted by another officer and then pursued by seperate group (of 3 I think from memory), no additional information other then ‘bring subject in for questioning’ might have been exchanged. Remember last the police knew he was being taken in by the hospital and then they see him walking down the street.
Next thing the pursuing officers know they’ve got a knife pulled on them and then it’s tick tock tick tock.
You are right though I wasn’t there, so just like we don’t know for sure what went and it’s easy to blame the police, likewise we have no idea just how much he might have threatened them prior to being taken down.
June 8th, 2009 at 10:26 pm Cuteface(Quote)
A couple of points to keep in mind-
a). When the polices spot a target or suspect, before they pull the trigger, they should have communicate with other officers via radio. If they do so, the masssage would have come across that Elijah was admitted to ED earlier on etc. If the identity varification wasn’t conducted then they shouldn’t have pull the trigger.
b). A knife is not as dangerous as a gun. I mean, come on, seriously, when you have 2-3 police officers vs one mentally ill man, don’t tell me he is more dangerous. Plus, it’s not really tick tock because you can buy more time with someone who has a knife than a guy.
c). Like I have mentioned before, if the source that Alison provided is accurate enough, this man suffered from phobia. It is ‘normal’ for an individual with phobia to act the way he did (google DSM and look for phobia if you need to).
c). You haven’t answer the self-defence part? What if it was you feeling threatened by polices and was only trying to defence yourself?
d). Im not saying its easier to blame the polices, but there are always two sides of a coin. Like I said, none of us actually know Elijah and none of us were at the scene, so do not put your bet on one side only!
June 8th, 2009 at 10:35 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
a. They most likely weren’t expecting him to run and then pull a knife on them.
b. A knife is as dangerous as a gun at short (<30ft) range. A knife is more capable of producing a kill, does not need to be reloaded, will not jam and is much less likely to miss. You don’t know how much time they had, he could have charged them for all we know.
It’s very easy to assume the poor defenseless mentally ill guy was just sitting there having a cup of tea when the big bad police came alone and fired their bazooka chainguns into him for no reason.
c. It might have been normal for him, that doesn’t mean the risk is any more to an officers life if they are within the 21ft danger range.
d. Like everything I write about I try to read up as much as I can and in this case I’m siding with the police purely on the fact that Elijah was armed, non compliant and most likely within the 21ft striking zone.
June 8th, 2009 at 10:56 pm Cuteface(Quote)
I acknowledge your responses… but… self-defence???
OK so knife is more dangerous than gun within 21ft, but how many officers were dealing with Elijah at the time exactly? Im sure there were more than one…
And yes, for normal people knife can be capable of producing a kill, does not need to be reloaded, will not jam and is much less likely to miss, etc etc etc… BUT don’t forget, they were dealing with a mentally disabled man who was probably only capable to cut the officers palm open.
I must admit that the more sources I read the more I side with the victim of the ignorant officers, purely from my understanding of the medical condition that Elijah suffered from and the police officers I dealt with previously (when I was vulnerable and needed help)…
June 9th, 2009 at 7:02 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Like I said, the officers might not have been aware he was mentally disabled and the hospital had also declared him not mentally ill or disabled by classifying him as a voluntary patient.
Anyone can kill with a knife, the 21ft rule is there because from within that distance a person is quite capapble of running up to the assailant and stabbing at least once. Most people can pull a gun and get one shot off during this time (usually <2 seconds) but if that shot isn’t fatal you’re pretty much dead. That’s from 21ft, who knows how close they were in an alleyway.
It’s just not worth the risk, especially if he’s not listening to disarm requests.
June 9th, 2009 at 10:49 am Cuteface(Quote)
Yes you are right! It’s not worth the risk of THEIR lives but it’s ok with others. Because they are polices who have authority and power and people like me are just small citizens who got nothing to loss.
They can always argue their way out like you did, but at the end of the way, please remember, everyone is someone’s beloved son/daughter, husband/sife, brother/sister. Police officers lives are not the only ones that’s ‘not worth the risk’!!!
June 9th, 2009 at 10:59 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
If you hold up a knife to police and refuse to disarm you are risking your own life, the police cannot be blamed or held accountable for this.
The second you show armed aggression towards the police and refuse to disarm they have the right to take your life. It’s not their job to risk their lives to take down armed threats.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:09 am Cuteface(Quote)
True and I have agreed with you on that previously, but have the polices ever try to stand in other’s shoes to look at the world?
What if the victim was actually feeling threaten by the polices at the time? What if the victim was self-defence? Self-defence is a legal action toward polices or anyone (I’ve checked on this) and for someone who has phobia the subject that they fears of is always a threat!
Once again, this is getting political. As I have mentioned that polices always get their way out of it. If this is about two citizens fighting then whoever shot the other would be considered as a ‘cold-blood killer’ regardless to the motivation of killing.
I’m not arguing for Elijah or anyone here but I don’t like your ’100% police supporter’ attitude because you were not there at the scene. And you do not know what went through Elijah and / or the polices’ mind!
All I’m saying is… keep your option open and be subjective. You can have your own opinion but don’t always try to knock off other people’s opinion.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:19 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
When you hold a knife to police who are in pursuit of you (police do not legally need a reason to question someone) then you are clearly not acting in self defense. You become the agressor.
Some idiot holding weapons up to police seems to happen every few years and the same arguments always come out. Remember that guy with a samurai sword at flinders? Or that guy who held a knife to police in preston who was drugged up on ICE?
They all get taken down and rightfully so.
Police are not citizens when they are on duty and the motivation here is clear: Threat minimisation. The cold-blooded killer comparison is invalid.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:29 am Cuteface(Quote)
That’s the whole point, police do not legally need a reason to question someone, but you can still self-defence toward a police. (check with a legal practitioner if you need to). Unfortunately in Elijah’s case, he couldn’t explain that on the court, because guess what? he’s dead!
And yes! Unfortunately, some ‘idiot’ who suffered from mental illness should be taken into consideration. The polices filed their report back at the station through a eletronic mechine within two hours and before their duty of shooting a subject they should always do backgorund check. Of course then you’d probably argue that there wasn’t enough time etc etc.
And NO I dont recall any guy with samuri sword and held a knife at police in preston. Mind me ask, were they mentally disabled (with sufficient evidence of course)? Perhaps not the second guy cos he’s on ICE. If they were not mentally disabled, and they did not ask the officers to take them to the hospital earlier on the same day, AND they did not suffer from a phobia toward police officers, THEN… sorry, the comparison is invalid!
June 9th, 2009 at 12:22 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Soooo…. if you have a mental illness the correct thing for the police to do after asking you to disarm is to do nothing?
Sorry but pull a knife on police, refuse to disarm = dead. Good riddance and I don’t care if you’re mentally ill or not.
I wouldn’t compromise my health if put in the same position dealing with an non-compliant unstable armed threat and I don’t expect the police to either.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:29 pm Cuteface(Quote)
Not to do nothing but to at least minimise the harm. It’s simply neglecting with that lethal shot.
And there’s your attitude of ‘I don’t care’… when you are in their shoes or one of your family is, then Im sure you’d start to care. (or maybe not I don’t know cos I’m not you.)
No you wouldn’t compromise your health cos you are just another citizen, but polices are trained well enough (hopefully but I begin to doubt it) to try not shot someone to death if possible. Unfortunately, I do expect the polices to care because they are polices. They have the title, so they should do their duty but at the same time be a human being. You are not a police so of course you wouldn’t have that badge and at the same time, you can ‘not care’!
June 9th, 2009 at 12:36 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Police are trained that if they shoot it’s shoot to kill. If you risk trying to just incapacitate a knife there is a high chance they’ll keep up the assault and you’ll get injured. Remember it takes someone <2 seconds to cover 21 feet and that’s not enough time to shoot to incapcitate and then decide it didn’t work and then shoot to kill.
Police do have capsicum spray or tasers to incapacitate (not sure about tasers in NSW haven’t checked) but neither of those are deployed vs. knife threats.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:49 pm Cuteface(Quote)
I don’t think they are trained to shoot to kill ALL THE TIME. So what if they get injured? It’s a better outcome than someone’s death isn’t it?
My point is, it was simply a case of neglecting and the polices took the easy way out (as usual!)
OZ- this is your website so you are going to argue me out, I’m not here to argue with you but to express my view. I don’t need you to nod and fully agree upon me but at least listen to what other people have in mind. I usually agree with you in most cases but not this one, sorry!
And from reading your articles I’m sure you are a cold-blood don’t care type of person, so do not act as if you don’t care for a thing in the world, because if you don’t then you wouldn’t be here writing about things… Do more research on mental illness and perhaps (I can only hope) you understand more about it and won’t show as much stigma toward it. As much as I hate people using mentall illness as an excuse to get out of things, the individuals who actually suffer from it should not be neglected and our society should really look into each individual’s cases and try to understand it more…
June 10th, 2009 at 10:41 am kate(Quote)
I do know elijah i went to school with him for years and as his wife says he was a gentil and beautiful man in all of his years at Narrabri i never even herd of him having a confrontation with any one. the police need to be trained to deal with people with this type of disorder the worst thing they could have done is chace and scare him even more than he was to his family i say this i am so sorry for your loss lets just hope that some good can come of this lets hope that police officers are trained in mental health and lets hope that this dose not happen again
June 10th, 2009 at 4:32 pm Ellen(Quote)
ozsoapbox,
here’s the deal.
For a man suffering from Mental illness, especially Paranoia, being confronted by a OUT OF UNIFORM policeman pointing a gun at you would be TERRIFYING. There is a distinct possibility that Elijah did not realise he was being confronted by a policeman, in which case, his reaction is understandable. I seek not to judge Elijah nor the police, but rather urge you to consider that, without being fully aware of the circumstances, it is no-one’s right to judge anyone.
Secondly, how DARE you make judgements on a grieving family. Asserting that Elijah’s wife is ‘hiding behind the veil of anonymity’ is downright merciless and particularly judgemental given the grief and need for privacy I expect she would be feeling. And don’t call Elijah ‘some idiot’- If he was mentally ill its quite probable that he was normally a gentle and kind person, especially given the details of his family’s statement saying that he had only suffered from paranoia over the past 12 months. Labelling him in such derogatory terms without being aware of his personality yourself is an ignorant assumption to make.
So have your opinions, but at least express them in a sympathetic way. There are more involved than just the immediate victim here.
June 10th, 2009 at 4:40 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
The gun wouldn’t have been pulled till the face off in the alleyway. Police aren’t going to chase some guy with their guns drawn through public places.
As for not knowing they were police, well unless he was didn’t speak english I’m pretty sure this wasn’t an issue. Also note the officer that spotted him was plainclothes, the ones that pursued him were clothed I believe.
As for my opinion, not everyone is going to have sympathy for Elijah – I myself have none. Hell I probably wouldn’t have even written about this if his wife didn’t decide to have a go and start blaming police. That’s what really got my back up as opposed to the actual incident itself.
I’m all for them reviewing their how to deal with mental people policies but to come out all rambo against the police when she wasn’t there from the land of anonymous was a bit rich.
June 10th, 2009 at 4:49 pm Cuteface(Quote)
This argument is heating up and I probably decided to pull out now…
HOWEVER, Oz, I hope you think otherwise if Elijah is your family member…
That’s all from me for this topic.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:42 pm Rose(Quote)
I dare you to stand face to face with his parents and say the crap your saying. Yes there is always two sides of the story, but lets face the harsh reality and that is, the police officers got to go home this day and Elijah didnt. Love you heaps Ej
June 11th, 2009 at 8:48 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Why, what are his parents going to do, pull a knife on me?
You say the fact the officers all went home safely like it’s a bad thing.
Harsh reality: it’s not.
June 12th, 2009 at 7:58 pm Rose(Quote)
If you met his parents then you would know that violence is not what they are about. I am glad the police went home so dont put words in my mouth, what I am saying is that because the media chose to describe Elijah as mentally ill everybody envisages a monster, he was far from that and if you took the time to talk to his family and friends im sure you would realise this yourself. Harsh reality is he could of shot him anywhere other than his chest then they all could of gone home, and dont forget mate there was no reason why the cops should of chased him anyway he wasnt wanted by anyone except his parents.
June 12th, 2009 at 8:15 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
They could have shot him anywhere but the chest, but police are not trained to do this. The gun is the last resort when confronted with an armed threat and it’s shoot to kill.
As I’ve mentioned previously shooting to disable isn’t a guarantee of neutralising the threat. Not to mention unles the police pull some weird Phantom-style weapon disarming shots the threat is still armed, only now he’s bleeding to death.
Paramedics aren’t going to go anywhere near an armed and injured threat.
As for mental illness not defining him, well he’d been off medication for 2 days and it’s most likely he’d still be alive if he’d stuck on it – that’s the reason it was focused on.
June 12th, 2009 at 9:20 pm Rose(Quote)
So your trying to tell me that police only train to shoot to kill? That they dont train them to assess a situation then act accordingly, that the only solution is to kill kill kill? You seem to have done some research in police procedures but not enough on mental illness because if you did then you would know that being off his medication for two days would not turn him into the raging lunatic you are trying to make him out to be. And to say the police could not disarm him is pathetic because Elijah was only a small person (in size) in comparison to most police especially two or one whichever (they cant seem to make their mind up about this). If your going to stand on your soapbox then educate yourself a bit better about the topics your going to discuss and not let it be as one sided as you have done. Everyone has their opinion but there are people who know the facts and in this case you dont.
June 12th, 2009 at 9:29 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
When guns are drawn it’s shoot to kill. None of this hollywood ‘disable the perp’ nonsense, it’s just too risky for officers/paramedics.
As far as acting, I can guarantee you they would have exhausted all other options, not that there’s many when faced with an armed threat within striking distance. It’s pretty much, ‘disarm… disarm please?…pretty please?…*BANGBANG*’
You don’t need to be a hulking giant to land a blow with a knife, that’s the whole reason threats get taken out as the risk to officer health when confronting a non-responsive threat is too great.
I encourage and appreciate debate and feedback on the topics I publish, I might not agree with you but I’m more then happy to listen to what you have to say.
June 12th, 2009 at 10:23 pm Rose(Quote)
I dont want to be rude especially to someone I have never met, this is just a little too close to home for me to be objective, but I will let you know that I do have a healthy respect for police and it does upset me when I hear of police being attacked on duty or off or being killed just for the simple reason that they are a cop. But I want you to do a bit of research of disorders that can turn a lovely person into something else, and I want you to know that Elijah has always been a gentle person all his life and shouldnt be judged by the last ten minutes of his life.
June 12th, 2009 at 10:40 pm Cuteface(Quote)
@ Rose -
I also had a healthy respect toward police and it still does upset me when I hear of police being attacked on duty or off or being killed just for the simple reason that they are cops. In fact, I feel sorry and upset if anyone’s killed, and I am sure you do too. Yes I do admit that I have a slight biased opinion toward polices nowadays, however, it does not in anyway alter my opinion toward this particular incident. My opinions and views were based on my understanding of mental illness at a professional level.
(I know I’ve said no more post from me for this story but I couldn’t resist it… opps…)
June 13th, 2009 at 3:29 am Allison(Quote)
@OZ whatever your name is, so many of your statements are untrue. Please get your facts right before you make claims, I only read your second or third response after mine before I stopped reading, because I saw so many inaccuracies in the one posting, and I am only going to correct you on that one post and not bother with the rest because I don’t have time for this nonsense. First of all you said the police were informed on the same day that Elijah was shot about his condition/him missing. This is not true. They were informed dayS before before the incident happened, so that is just plain wrong. Second his wasn’t his grandparents that informed the police it was his parents. These are such easy facts to verify and it worries me that if you can get such simple things like this mixed up that you are mixing up a lot of your “facts”. Thirdly I want it to be known that I never said Elijah had stopped taking his medication. If you actually READ carefully what has been written, no article says that I said that, most articles quote me saying that to another newspaper but if you look at the actual article they are referring to, the journalist in that article quoutes me on saying something, ends the quote and the sentence and then opens a new sentence and says “He (Elijah) had stopped taking his medication for two days.” They never directly say that I said that because I DIDN’T say that!! All of these news articles are so untrue, it is ridiculous! There is even one circulating out there that says Elijah and I lived in Armidale together (the place he was shot). We lived in Sydney, I’ve never been to Armidale, and had never even heard of the town until this incident happened. This doesn’t matter, but what my point is, if the media are messing up these easily verifiable FACTS, then just think about the details they are messing up about things that are not facts and not easily verifiable….the fact of the matter is that the police fucked up that day, they did something they knew they shouldn’t have, and then they tried to spin the story to cover their asses. Witnesses are now coming forward with statements that completely contradict what the police are saying. Please check out the story below: http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25628560-5001021,00.html
June 13th, 2009 at 7:32 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Hey Allison, thanks for posting that article.
If the eye witness accounts are indeed accurate then I hope the police inolved are prosecuted as lying to the public isn’t on. I’ll keep an eye on how this plays out – might even do a follow up if Elijah is cleared.
June 13th, 2009 at 10:27 am Rose(Quote)
See ozsoapbox two sides to every story.
June 14th, 2009 at 9:09 pm Needs(Quote)
Another internet tough guy, everyone is awed at your capability to spit your filth and vouch for being well informed ‘well documented’ while insulting all in sundry with a total lack of compassion. Your such a douche man, you may sit anonymous behind your monitor knowing that your completely immune to any backlash from heartless comments, but at least show some respect and pipe down even if you completely lack dignity, quit your responses. I’m sure that your constant reply’s to your thread come from a deep seeded need to remain at the center of attention even during times of tragedy for others but lay off. Allison doesn’t need any more pain and shouldn’t feel the need to take time to correct numerous errors about the simplest things your lack of thorough research has lent your article and replys. Stop being so sure of yourself and give it a rest.
I say with passion and more than a little contempt, but i know it isn’t below you, Please, for EJ’s friends and family.
June 14th, 2009 at 9:21 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
What Allison does and doesn’t do is beyond my control. If she’s so grief stricken maybe spending time on the internet isn’t the best thing for her to be doing right now.
The original article was written with the best research I could find at the time and hasn’t been edited retrospectively. If you follow the discussion under the article you’d see alleged eyewitnesses have claimed circumstances might have occured differently to what was originally made public.
Once the report is officially filed we’ll have a clearer idea and if he was found to be unarmed and not a threat you can bet I’ll be the first one writing about it.
June 14th, 2009 at 10:44 pm Needs(Quote)
You may note that i said ‘feel the need’, you are contributing to a sense of duty within her to clear her late husbands name, may he rest in peace, by your posting? yeah? I am well aware that her actions are beyond your control, however not influence. I’m not saying that she ‘must’ go online and reply to your thread. Only that by continuous posting in which you have slandered, or falsely advertised Elijah, that you are feeding this sense of duty. Allison will wish to clear his name, as no one close to EJ, would wish for any tarnish to be applied falsely his good name and clean record.. yeah?
Anyway im out, im not going to push this into anything its not, just saying, please don’t grief the family when its unnecessary.. leave well alone and be left alone.
If your close relatives and friends passed away i cannot imagine that you’d be particularly encouraging towards the first would be journalist who wrote a story in a most self righteous manner, using only a completely biased one sided story from a police officer who had every reason to protect his own ass and a few additional ‘facts’ sketchy at best.
I mean man on a personal note, being the first to get the story out isn’t always as important as being the one who gets the correct story out. Being a great journalist, or a well respected online poster, isn’t necessarily a race, ‘you can bet I’ll be the first one writing about it’ competition is nice, but when it comes to something like this, one has to be sensitive, i mean sure if the ape just escaped from the zoo, post away! no body cares about facts, but where heavy emotions lie, walk softly.
June 18th, 2009 at 3:13 pm Vanessa(Quote)
R.I.P My darling ELIJAH..
Not one day has gone pass thaa i haven’t thought bout you.. You left us all so young.. You will be forever missed until we meet again..
Can everyone stop with the crap talk and forget about whats been said and just let ELIJAH rest now.. He would have wanted all this fuss to stop so cut the crap..
R.I.P elijah darling xoxoxoxoxox
June 20th, 2009 at 11:27 pm Toni(Quote)
As a relative of Elijah Holcombe I will offer my support to his wife Allison and all family and friends who remember our beautiful Elijah and smile as we hold him close to our heart. It seems that a blogger has taken a news worthy situation and run with it.
Those of us who know Elijah are understandably hurt by the tone in which this blogger has chosen to write this entry. To comfort the hurt our loss of Elijah has caused us we should remember that Elijah would be surprised and embarrassed by all the attention he is receiving.
Such an accomplished and talented young man, Elijah would never partake in blogging or commenting on somebody’s opinion in a blog. We should all learn from him and wish the blogger the best of luck in making a living out of having an opinion.
Those of us who know Elijah can take comfort in each other and the memories of Elijah. We are blessed to have had him in our lives and no blogger can take that from us.
We love you Elijah
Toni
August 7th, 2009 at 5:32 pm Jordan(Quote)
Ok, here’s the thing.
I’m 16. I’ve known Ej my whole life. In fact, I’m his little sister.
However, I still seem to be more capable of taking a two-sided, sensitive, objective and factual view of these events, than this blogger. I am capable of understanding that news reports and what-not are not ever 100% accurate or reliable sources. I can form an opinion, of course. But I can also make sure what I have formed my opinion on is something solid.
@Oz -You seem to be very gun-ho (pun not intended)and ready to take off, slandering and dis-crediting my brother and even go so far as to question the extent of his wife’s, our darling Allison’s, GRIEF and how she may choose to deal with it;
“If she’s so grief stricken maybe spending time on the internet isn’t the best thing for her to be doing right now.”, simply because she took the time to try and clear Elijah’s name of the ramblings and misfitted statements you handed out without an ounce of evidence or personal knowledge and experience of this individual occasion (being that of the policeman and Elijah in Cinder’s Lane).
I, personally, think someone as committed to publishing blogs about such events as you are, would learn to be objective and factual, if you find yourself unable to present any emotion or sympathy.
Quite simply, this article is stupid.
My brother has been shot, and I have found it quite easy to be understanding and sympathetic of the situation, stress and responsibility of the policeman who shot him.
As available evidence stands, it is not possible for anyone but the police and witnesses to say whether Elijah actually did threaten anyone with a knife as the police are yet to release any information, due to the inquiry taking place on the matter. So I don’t see how you can even pass off describing any part of the things you’ve written about as “well-documented”.
I can appreciate your opinion as it is, though I think, were you to open your eyes and try to accept that there may be more to the story, it may come to be more two-sided, if not completely altered. You have acted rashly and so made public your lack of information. I ask you to, please, be more careful when writing about such sensitive areas and to, perhaps, take into consideration not only what you put into your blogs, but what may come from them as well.
And thanks for being so responsive to the comments left on this blog, and also, thanks to those leaving the comments (especially Toni and Allison). Information is an incredible thing.
I love you, Elijah Jay.
-Jordan
August 7th, 2009 at 8:58 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Hi Jordan, first of all let me just say I’m sorry you went through losing a brother at such a young age. I don’t wish that upon anyone.
I think you seem to misunderstand the point of this blog. OzSoapbox is written by me and I have never claimed to be objective. I, like anyone else have opinions on current events.
Whilst I do try to research what I write about (which often times is impossible beyond various news articles, as you point out the police haven’t released any further information), my opinions on a lot of things are formed on what I read and based on my own beliefs and opinions are quite capable of being one sided.
My comments regarding your mother were out of respect, I did not think it was fair for a clearly grief stricken person to be discussing the event with someone who wasn’t emotionally involved in it. I have nothing personally against Elijah or his family I simply gave my opinion on whether or not the police should be held accountable for their actions.
I appreciate my writing style might not be easy reading for family members close to the incident but as a writer I can’t tailor content to please everyone.
I haven’t prohibited or censored any of the critical posts on this topic as I welcome other people’s opinions on the matter and value their insight. Just as I’m allowed to have my opinions so so are you and I respect that.
Thankyou for taking the time to offer your feedback and best wishes in the future. I hope your family sees happier times ahead.
August 11th, 2009 at 11:49 pm Jordan(Quote)
Hi. Thanks.
When were you talking about my mother? I think you mean Allison, who is my sister in-law (just to clear that up.)
Is it not fair on her part, or yours? I’d say it’s much more in favour of someone who is actually involved with the case to be discussing it.
I’m not trying to say you shouldn’t have an opinion, I’m only hoping to give you more information on which to form it. Sometimes I do like to discuss the matter, to gain perspective and understanding and to deal with it. I hope, only, that you will take into account my knowledge and perspective of the matter, when forming your opinion, as mine is open to any who offer sound arguments.
I’m not certain of much, but I do know Elijah, I know his mannerisms and how he is/was likely to react to things around him, I know his personality and I know what he is/was or isn’t/wasn’t capable of, I understand enough of his illness and it’s effects, and I know of how much of this the police were informed.
Who is to be accountable for the Policeman’s actions, if not himself? Is not every person to be held accountable for their own actions?
Whether they receive reprimand or encouragement for their actions is what is under debate. Either what they did was right, or it wasn’t. And if, for what ever reason, it wasn’t right, then who IS to be reprimanded? Elijah? I’d say he’s already been punished for whatever people seem think he’s done wrong (running away from the policeman who was talking to him?). The Policeman? Directly, sure. But why did he do it? Do we blame the lack of training? Whomever it was to have given the training? Whomever authorised the training course? Do we blame the Government for overseeing such a loop-hole? Do we care who gets the blame or who is held accountable?!
The fact is that Elijah armed himself because he was confused and paranoid and was being pursued by the object of his paranoia. Take a glimpse inside his mind for a moment; If you were scared the police were going to kill you, then a police officer approached you, would you run? I would. And if that policeman chased you, would you try to defend yourself? I would.
My point is, however ironic it may sound, the moment that officer drew his gun he proved Elijah right and so granted reason for Elijah’s actions. And with my KNOWLEDGE that Elijah is/was incapable of hurting anyone but himself, no matter the situation (and I’m afraid your just going to have to trust those of us who did know him personally, on that one), who was it that this paranoia posed a threat to? Nobody but Elijah, it would seem. Elijah had reason to be scared of the police simply because he was scared of the police. Is it punishable by death to be frightened of a police officer? I hope not, or honestly, they may as well shoot me now.
There are three reasons, and three reasons alone, for which I commented at all; One, to let people know that as far as any proven information available shows, Elijah had done nothing wrong, but was needlessly confronted, pursued, frightened and shot. Two, because a police officer was put in this situation, with out proper training to deal with it. And three, to make sure that this never happens to any other innocent souls.
Thanks for hearing me, OzSoapbox.
That’s all from me.
August 12th, 2009 at 12:15 am Jordan(Quote)
sorry, I know I said that’s all, but I meant to put in there that the policeman obviously didn’t know Elijah, and so none of my background knowledge changes how he could have reacted in the situation, you’re right, knives are potentially lethal. I’m just trying to say, before anyone goes jumping around calling my brother a crazed knife wielder, threatening police and what-not, that I know (and anyone who has ever met Elijah knows) that attack was never a real option for him. The policeman didn’t know that. I’m not asking you to become as emotionally involved as me, but just putting out there that Elijah had emotions, and exaggerated guilt was one of them. He’d kill himself before killing anyone else. This is so obvious to anyone that has ever met Elijah, and that is why we’re kicking up a stink when people disregard what they don’t know. And as you may have noticed, it IS Elijah that’s dead, and not the policeman. Though, obviously, I believe that it would clearly be a favourable outcome if both were alive.
-thanks again.
August 13th, 2009 at 12:36 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Sorry Jordan I did get mother/sister mixed up there.
Part of the initial animosity on my part was a result of Allison’s comments in the media stating the police should be ashamed of themselves.
As you note the police don’t know the backstory nor have an emotional connection to the the threat. They just see a guy with a knife in a public place refusing to disarm.
(I’m not saying whether he was or wasn’t a threat, but the term ‘armed threat’ is any person with a weapon standing off against police)
Police aren’t left with many options in this situation.
As for accountability I think if the officer is found to have followed police guidelines then they shouldn’t be held personally accountable. With the exception that unless they were off duty.
Nobody should be made to feel ashamed for doing their job, especially the police.
August 13th, 2009 at 2:06 pm from the states(Quote)
I am from the states and heard about what happened to Elijah. I started reading a few articles and Jordan, until your August 11th post I had no idea what to believe. Your facts are solid, but you recognize the other points of view. From reading many articles and these blogs back and fourth two things seem clear to me. First, the media and negative blogs are dragging an innocent man AND his family through the dirt for no right reason. I hope for their sake it will end. Second, with the amount of time it has taken the media to try to tear Elijah’s reputation apart, we could have had a fully trained police force throughout Australia and the states!
September 15th, 2009 at 9:37 pm Allison(Quote)
@ozsoapbox I wasn’t going to say anything more until I read your comment about you having animosity towards me because I said the police should be ashamed of themselves. In all of your “reasoning” you leave out one very important and vital fact which is that EJ was shot by a plain clothes cop. There is not a single witness that heard the cop identify himself as a cop to EJ. In fact, all of the witnesses are quoted saying that they didn’t even know that the cop who shot EJ was a cop until after the whole incident happened and the uniformed police appeared on the scene…everyone needs to ask themselves what they would do if a person in normal street clothes was pointing a gun at them? The FACT that the police officer never identified himself as an officer and then shot EJ (which is why the officer is going to be charged with manslaughter at the very least), and then instead of the police admitting their mistake they proceeded to try to cover up their wrong doings (which seems to be police protocal these days) is why I said the police should be ashamed of themselves, which they should be! So maybe you shouldn’t judge people so quickly next time. Maybe you should wait to find out the facts before you form an opinion and jump to conclusions.
September 15th, 2009 at 11:14 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Sorry Allison but the fact is the undercover cops approached Elijah well before the public took any notice. You can’t say it’s unreasonable to suggest they identified themselves before Elijah made a run for it. I mean why would he run if someone in plainclothes who had not identified themselves as police approached him?
As far as I know witnesses only saw the incident at the climax and possibly took notice during the shopping mall chase. At this point I’d hardly expect the undercover police to take a time out and personally make sure they showed their badge to each and every eyewitness present.
I appreciate your efforts to again condemn the police but lets not make stuff up shall we?
September 19th, 2009 at 11:03 am Allison(Quote)
EJ ran from two uniformed police officers into the Cafe and out the back door where he was confronted by the undercover police officer in plain clothes who never identified himself as a police officer and shot EJ. The 2 uniformed police officers whom EJ originally ran from did not catch up with him until after the undercover police officer had already shot him. Those are the FACTS. Why don’t YOU stop making crap up and STOP PRETENDING LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!
September 19th, 2009 at 11:50 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Sorry were you there Allison?
Why didn’t you mention that you were there earlier?
How does an undercover police officer just appear behind a cafe before two uniformed officers who apparently the only ones chasing him even arrive at the scene? What did he just go wait out the back of any cafe and hope that EJ walked through the back exit?
Sounds made up to me.
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:55 am Jordan(Quote)
You know what, Oz? Actually, Allison is right.
Oddly enough, it is actually more likely that someone has contacted Allison and our family to inform us of the few facts avaliable about the case than to have talked to a blogger such as yourself. Just because you don’t know what happened doesn’t mean that some aren’t even a little more informed than yourself. What Allison has stated is what we have been told has happened. Perhaps you should back down a little and allow others to care about something that you obviously have nothing to do with.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:00 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
So if that’s exactly what happened, why haven’t heads rolled?
Unless what your “someone” told you was the finding of an enquiry, investigation or court case then it’s just an allegation and carries no weight.
“Someone” sounds random, were they directly involved in an investigation or court case or just telling your family what you all desperately want to hear?
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:02 pm anna(Quote)
You, Ozsoapbox, are the most ridiculous, moronic, awful person i think that ANYONE could come across. I have never heard of anyone being so inconsiderate for a heartbroken family. You have clearly lived an extremely sheltered life and i hope i never come across someone like you. How dare you continue to argue about how you ‘feel’ about this incident.
You have a serious issue.
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:08 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Yeah, how dare I continue to argue about how I feel on my blog.
HOW DARE I!
October 23rd, 2009 at 9:53 pm Allison(Quote)
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2009/s2722195.htm
October 27th, 2009 at 2:01 am Lydia(Quote)
Oz,
Perhaps now is the time to bring this hurtful charade to an end. You may not feel you have made your point, or that your opinion has been correctly understood, but I ask you to consider the damage that this continued argument you are conducting is having on a grieving family.
The ability for empathy is one of the qualities that distinguishes us as human, and perhaps it is time for you to reconnect with that aspect of your humanity, and give an unreserved apology to those you have offended.
Although I have never met the Holcombe family, I feel for them, and any other family within the community whose lives have been touched by mental illness or violence, and my heart goes out to them.
Yours should too, and for this reason, you should stop arguing and let people who are qualified investigate this tragedy in a proper, respectful manner.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:49 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
I’ve offered to cover it if and when anything is published that will change my opinion but thus far nothing has come out. My opinions is unchanged based on what is publicly knowledge.
The 4 Corners article linked to above is just an opinion of the events like my own. Elijah’s mother is quoted and well let’s be honest, she’s hardly able to distance herself and have a look at what happened now is she.
Still she’s also entitled to her opinion though and I respect that, hence why I’m more then happy for Allison or anyone else to provide further information as it’s released.
Opinions certainly aren’t set in stone and they can change, until something concrete comes out however I stand by everything I’ve written.
October 28th, 2009 at 12:17 pm peter colenso(Quote)
Hi Soapbox
On the news it says the Officer who shot him was pacing with a very unpleasant disposition, it sounds like he may be beside himself. With all the top cops being Free Masons, and the Free Masons being neck deep in the craft, demonic possession can not be ruled out, especially involving a name like Elijah. Elijah is the main prophet, he popped from no where then ridiculed the Jewish elite, then he ascended and sent down hail stones of fire. Elijah also said he would return, and today the good Jews are waiting for him, the return of the Chosen one. He is what the bible is all about.
I hope Elijah’s name did not get him murdered by a Demon.
Pete
November 2nd, 2009 at
[...] not the first time I’ve clashed with family members over my opinions on current events (see Elijah Holcombe) and I’m sure it won’t be the [...]
January 5th, 2010 at 4:34 pm Impartial(Quote)
If the evidence concerning this police shooting that was broadcast by the ABC television channel is correct, and at this point that looks highly likely, then this case will highlight like no other case before in Australia a debate that is probably more important than the actual shooting itself.
What happens after police shootings.
The culture of “Police integrety comes first the truth comes second”. The culture of the police to lie and twist the truth when it appears their officers did not have the right to fire their weapons.
The fact that even when it is obvious that the truth has not been told the police will stick with their original story until the very end no matter how much that in return degrades their integrety instead of protecting it.
If police make a mistake or panic and shoot someone dead that did not really deserve to be shot then that truth should be told and the police, having been forthcomming with that truth, would recieve nothing but consideration and understanding from a fair person like myself.
I can except a mistake, even when the result of that mistake is someone loosing their life, but lies and twists of the truth I can not and in these situations they are not morally exceptable, unlike some other situations in police work where they are.
The “certain” police who stand by this unofficial code of conduct even in situations where it does more harm than good to the image of the police should really change that code because it is now outdated.
March 30th, 2010 at 12:50 pm Completly Agree with Anna(Quote)
This family is mourning… How could you be so heartless.
The police clearly are not trained to deal with the mentally ill and this is a complete tragedy that should never have happened. The police had so many other options open to them… and chose the worst one possible.
Imagine that this was your family or best frind this had happened and how you would feel reading all these horrible lies and accusations. Even though you think you might, you dont know everything.
Allison and any other friend or family member of Elijah, I am so sorry you have had to read this and be put through hell all over again.
March 30th, 2010 at 4:18 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Because I’m not a family member?
It’s not the police’s job to deal with the mentally ill. If someone is that fargone they should be locked up in a crazy house. Again it’s not the police’s responsibility to make sure this happens. If Elijah was that far gone his family should have placed him in suitable care before any of this happened.
It wasn’t the worst option for the police involved, they got to go home that night. Why should they risk their lives on an unpredictable mentally ill person they don’t know the history of?
People are going to have opinions, that doesn’t automatically make them lies and accusations. If you don’t like the idea of people expressing their minds you might want to move to China.
It’s not like anyone held them at knifepoint and told them to read. They’re free to join the discussion just as anyone else is.
May 20th, 2010 at 8:16 pm Sujath(Quote)
ozsoapbox please atleast have little respect to the family alright we don’t care if u have total respect to the police. Elijah had illness and he was scared so he considered the police dangerous so for this reson he had knife pinting at the cops.
If the cops would have just radioed to command maybe ellijah would have lived and i know ur going to argue the cops had less time. And also the cops are trained to deal with this type of situation to counter attack the guy with a knife/gun.
May 22nd, 2010 at 12:39 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Yes they are and that’s the point. How do you think they are trained to deal with people armed with knives/guns?
Hint: Cops aren’t trained to offer them a cup of tea and a chat.
June 2nd, 2010 at 10:34 am whocares(Quote)
Hasn’t anyone heard of freedom of speech? If you don’t like it, don’t read it.
June 2nd, 2010 at 4:46 pm sujath(Quote)
tha of course they’re not trained to offer them cup of tea and a chat they are trained for close combat including when dealing with knives.
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:40 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Yeah and fortunately, or unfortunately if you’re on the receiving end, this means ‘bang bang you’re dead’. Knives are too deadly a weapon to stuff around over.
August 2nd, 2010 at 10:51 pm Ben(Quote)
I am Elijah’s cousin and every thing that this person wrote in this article is bullshit. Elijah was probably the most unlikely person to attack another human being.
He did grab the knife but witnesses say that he never threatened anyone with it. the officer who shot him gave in three warnings within seconds of each other and then shot him three times. the reason he grab the knife was because he was paranoid, he believed that the police were out to get him and seeing a cop chasing after you through a shopping center wouldn’t have helped that at all.
Whoever ozsoapbox is, i have known that family my whole life, they are some of the nicest and most caring people i have ever known and to say that the police were right to shoot Elijah is just wrong. let me know what you have to say about this and ill tell you again how wrong you are
August 3rd, 2010 at 3:44 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Unlikely doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen. A lot of things are unlikely until they happen and Elijah attacking someone could just have been one of them. I love how people go on about Elijah’s stability of character whilst mentioning he suffered from paranoia in the same sentence.
Well what the bloody hell was he doing with it then? Did he order a steak to go at the same time he picked up the knife?
The very act of picking up a knife when the police are in pursuit of you is an act of agression. What else were the police supposed to think?
They issued warnings and Elijah was holding a weapon. What else was going to happen? Sure the warnings might have only been seconds apart but on the other hand it only takes seconds for an armed person to cover a fair distance and injure someone too.
Well that’s nice, but this article wasn’t about Elijah’s greater family. I’m sure they’re all a bunch of swell chaps but meanwhile Elijah himself clearly had issues.
August 25th, 2010 at 7:09 am Yogo(Quote)
‘If someone is that fargone they should be locked up in a crazy house.’
Dear Soapbox,
The emotive language used in this quote does not help your argument. Perhaps the very useful booklet ‘A way with words’ distributed by Disability Services QLD may guide you with using less discriminatory language.
The link is included here:
http://www.disability.qld.gov.au/community/communication/way-words/
Regards
August 25th, 2010 at 3:49 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Sorry Yogo but poltical correctness has no place on this blog.
August 25th, 2010 at 11:24 pm Caffeinated SentryGnome(Quote)
i was gonna make a comment but Oz has already said it.