What the hell is wrong with Catch the Fire Ministries?
When I think religious nutjobs, I think crazy people in America attending town hall meeting with their pitchforks and multiple wives. They get trotted out whenever there’s a national debate on abortion or homosexuality and occasionally when one of their cults are exposed widespread media attention.
Although nobody really pays much attention to them, there is a veiled level of curiosity when it comes to the bizarre that goes on in these people’s lives.
Here in Australia it seems the US style evangelical fanaticism is starting to become uncomfortably more mainstream…and yes, the religious nutjobs here are just as crazy as their US counterparts.
After leaving his birth country Sri Lanka and spending two years unsuccessfully trying to preach Christianity in Saudi Arabia, Australia made the mistake of accepting Danny Nalliah into the country.
Upon arrival to Australia in 1997, Nalliah quickly established ‘Catch the Fire Ministries’ and began preaching his brand of religious nonsense to Australians.
In the first decade of his ministry, it seems the only thing of note that happened was a court case between Catch the Fire and the Islamic Council of Victoria. The case revolved around the alleged claim that Nalliah and his ministry had vilified muslims at a seminar they spoke at.
Now I’m not the biggest fan of Islam myself, so it’s kind of hard for me to decide who’s right between crazy christian nutjobs and crazy islamic nutjobs but legally speaking, after five years and a series of appeals Nalliah and Catch the Fire were eventually cleared of all charges.
Following the court case, in 2004 Nalliah briefly ran with political party Family First (these guys recently told Australian parliament that global warming is a myth) until he was asked to leave, following statements Nalliah made urging parishioners to “to pray that God would pull down “Satan’s strongholds”, which included brothels, gambling places, bottle shops, mosques and temples (including Freemason, Buddhist and Hindu temples)”.
It seems even religious hard right political groups have a threshold.
Following his stint in politics nothing much happened until the Black Saturday bushfires struck Victoria in February earlier this year. Following the bushfires Nalliah made a public statement blaming them on Victoria’s changes to abortion law in 2008.
I know when I think abortion I immediately make the connection with years of lacklustre undergrowth removal and soaring temperatures.
More recently however comes possibly the most hilariously alarming claim to date.
Catch the Fire Ministries pastor Daniel Nalliah has organised a “prayer offensive” to combat evil forces including witchcraft, homosexuality and abortion.
The discovery of a “black mass altar” at Mount Ainslie in Canberra by a group of school students had inspired him to organise a prayer gathering at the area on Saturday.
“The type of altar discovered on Mount Ainslie pointed to a black mass and the work of dark forces wanting to cast spells on Australia and federal parliament,” Mr Nalliah said.
“These days people don’t think the devil is real but we have seen the bad effects of the spiritual being known as Satan and we believe there is a spiritual fight over the nation of Australia being fought in the heavens.”
As for witchcraft, homosexuality and abortion – it seems Nalliah is deadly serious and the prayer gathering is for real.
Only 2 days left until ‘Taking the High Places for Jesus’ on October 17th in Canberra and across Australia, an integral part of the prophetic destiny of this Great South Land of the Holy Spirit!
May the Spirit of the Lord continue to supernaturally empower and victoriously lead you through the 21 day fast to cry out to the Lord of the heavens and the earth to heal our land of Australia!
Admittedly I have looked at Julia Gillard a few times and thought witchcraft might be at play, so on that one particular point I can sympathise with Nalliah.
In response to Catch the Fire’s prayer gathering, political party ‘The Australian Sexy Party’ have pledged to hold a protest of their own to counter the ministry’s gathering.
Sex Party convenor Fiona Patten said she and others would conduct a peaceful demonstration on Canberra’s Mount Ainslie on Saturday afternoon to protest the influence of radical religious groups on federal politics.
One can only hope.
On top of seriously believing that dark forces are conspiring against Australians through politics, Nalliah also “claims to have witnessed the healing of blind, deaf and crippled people at his prayer sessions, and claims that a dead girl was resurrected after he prayed for her”.
This brings me to the question: How is this man not locked away in a mental institution?
Under any other context if someone ran around proclaiming the things Nalliah has we’d have had them psychiatrically evaluated and subsequently institutionalised. Yet under the guise of religion this man is free to run around the country drawing illogical conclusions and pushing his delusional agenda.
As an Australian I’m alarmed that in just under an hour, atop Mount Ainslie, which is literally a few kilometers from parliament house, a group of religious nutjobs are going to cast spells of their own in an effort to bend parliament towards their own will.
What’s more they believe it will work.
Forget Sri Lankan Tamil Tiger boat people, bikie gangs, David Hicks or Indonesian terrorists, why isn’t anyone in parliament speaking out about religious fanatics in this country? Left unchecked, do we really want people like Nalliah and his Catch the Fire Ministries anywhere near the institution that runs this country?
I think it’s high time somebody in parliament told these people where to go.
Update 18/10/2009: Canberra blogger Arthwollipot was on site for the protest and took some interesting photos of the prayer session and ‘The Sex Party’ protestors. Of particular interest is Nalliah’s choice of (notso)megaphone.
I’m assuming he didn’t have time to go and buy a proper megaphone and instead chose to raid his kid’s toy chest. Although suitably perhaps the size of the megaphone inadvertently reflects the importance of his message.
October 17th, 2009 at 7:09 pm James(Quote)
But I thought it was because Australia supports homosexual rights and therefore “God hates Australia”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maeNk2itmMk&feature=fvw
F**king disgusting & useless nutjobs.
October 18th, 2009 at 1:09 am Roly(Quote)
The religio-luna Right(*) actually has a long history stretching from The National Civic Council, B.A.Santamaria and Eric Butler, through people like the Linden LaRouch Group, to Catch the Fire and Hillsong (including Bernadette McMenamin and the anti-internet child porn movement), now gathered as The Australian Christian Forum, ACF; (not to be confused with the Australian Conservation Foundation
.
}
{* is that a tautology, or is there a religio-Left?
These are the people behind the mandatory and unworkable ISP filters, and who post to ABC and SBS forums expecting filtering to cure all ills, no porn at all, nothing “distasteful” (to them), no more spam, &c&c.
On the topic of fire, last spring was one of the most difficult we’ve seen for safe fuel reduction burns, flipping between cold and wet and warm but too windy, so floor fuel was certainly high.
But I am really concerned that there hasn’t been nearly enough attention yet paid to changed fire *behaviour* (and the very serious game lift the CFA management therefore needs – they STILL haven’t learned from the 70mph Trentham/Macedon run on Ash Wednesday fgs!).
I’ve seen flaming gas balls but they are normally quite rare. Following Ash Wednesday there were reports of more gas “jetting” type behaviour than normal, but nothing like what has emerged in accounts since Black Saturday. How many times must people say “the very AIR was burning!” before a penny drops?
I know that CSIRO and Project Pheonix have looked at flammable oils being boiled off by persistant hot conditions (I was designing instrumentation for an aborted project), but I have a horrible feeling that our current “drought” will be the *normal* or average conditions into the foreseeable future, and that every time we have more than three days of hot dry north wind we will be at risk, not so much of a bush *fire*, as a bush gas “explosion”.
I don’t think that 10m clearing or even drastic fuel reduction is going to help much when our bushfires start throwing flaming gas balls 100′s of metres over mown grass, as they did that day; quite different to ember attack, and requires a serious (and urgent) rethink.
Assuming for just a moment that Nalliah is right and Black Saturday was God’s punishment for legalising abortion, how is the punishment fitted to the crime? Were any of the people who died in any way directly connected to the decision in Parliament? Why wasn’t just Parliament struck by lightning and burned down as a clear sign? How is this morally different from the suicide bomber in the town market place killing bystanders to make a point?
Well, what a stark contrast to what was happening on the fire ground in human terms.
My personal quote of the month, of the CFA; “Lions led by Donkeys”. The crews are fantastic, real quiet heros, but the overall *management* of bush fire services in NSW and Victoria I’m not so sure about.
The CFA “lost” the most important document of the entire disaster? Like you “misplace” the Flight Data Recorder after an air crash? Who do they think they are kidding? Why is Rees still in the job and backed by Brumby? What’s with this hopeless new risk scale, and infatuation with *phones* (c/f the old sirens) for warning people? Where is the crash programme laying big pipe sections as refuges in suitable places? It all stinks to high heaven. My big fear is that this summer is going to be a rerun of the last.
Where was Nalliah when 35,000 Lions were VOLUNTARILY putting life and limb on the line for fellow citizens they would never meet? Nalliah implicitly insults the entire spectrum from Socialist to Christian who step up to help in a crisis with no expectation of reward or recognition, and particularly those who have given their lives as a result.
I’ve been looked after by the secular Red Cross, Hippies and Rednecks, and by real Christians, backing up volunteers on the fireline back at the recovery centre. Posturing, point-scoring, appropreation, and finger-pointing has no place there. On behalf of these lions Mr Nalliah, allow me to say “Shame on you. Bugger off! You’re a waste of space.”
October 18th, 2009 at 11:53 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Well you do have the wiccans et al. but they’re just as looney as the right IMO. Bunch of overweight women running around pretending to be witches after reading one too many Harry Potter books.
These gas balls you speak of Roly, are they a byproduct of decomposition or something else? Seems kind of pointless to engage in current preventable measures if the air itself is prone to sparking up after a few days of heat.
This is one of the biggest problems with taking event A and randomly connecting it to your beliefs. ‘Fire is mentione a few times in the bible therefore all bushfires (despite being lit by humans) are the result of god’s fury’.
I’m pretty sure fire was around and most certainly bushfires long before we started aborting fetuses (fetii?).
Yeah I’ve read it’s going to be another hot summer. Hopefully we’ve learnt something from this year. I was talking to a lady who lives in the Grampians recently and she said they are always near the top of the fire risk charts yet they haven’t had a decent bushfire in a while now. She sounded pretty worried going into this years summer.
October 19th, 2009 at 11:09 am angelica(Quote)
I hardly think all Wiccans are overweight looneys running around with Harry Potter books. As a young wiccan, model and lawyer, I wouldn’t say I was any of the above and those whom I practice with certainly don’t fit that mould. Lumping people into a typecast mould will only cause to show that you are most certainly wrong.
My objection to Nulliah is that he has certainly not read into what Wicca is all about, where as being a christian previously, I have most certainly looked into and read about a vast array of religions and have drawn my own conclusions which may at the end of my life may or may not be correct but have and do help me along my own life path. I have no problems with people holding onto their own beliefs but as christians they should really follow the word of Jesus ‘Love thy neighbor’ I don’t belief he said ‘Love thy christian neighbour… or jewish rather as Jesus was a Jew’. Beyond that I wonder how many Pagan practices Nulliah participates in… seeing as most Christian feast days are actually pagan in origin… Christmas – Yule, Easter – Ostre, All Hallows – Halloween… Birthday Cake Candles making wishes, easter eggs, Christmas Trees… Pagans and Wiccans most certainly aren’t interested in black masses, usually we practice rituals to honor nature not kill it.
As for Australia’s bushfires… we live in a hot, tree filled nation… from evidence of our trees, many seeds will only break open in the event of a fire, and therefore it is part of our eco-system to have fires for re-growth and renewal, its a horrible thing when the fires destroy homes and lives, but surely people must realise the risk when they choose to live in areas prone to bushfires.
At least most Australians are sensible enough to see Nulliah as an uneducated extremist and will take no notice of him, and that is the best thing we can do, ignore him and watch him fade away.
October 19th, 2009 at 11:23 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Hey Angelica, welcome to OSB.
I was commenting on personal experience. In my lifetime I’ve met 5-6 wiccans (probably more but I was oblivious) and each time they fit the eccentricly dressed overweight female stereotype.
Lawyer + model + wiccan sounds hot, so I’m glad there are exceptions out there.
I’m glad you brought this up as it’s something I hadn’t considered but when you think about it, we’ve got this guy who grew up overseas in Sri Lanka, then went to live in the desert for a while before finally settling here. Then he’s got the gall to tell us fires in bushfire areas are punishment from god.
I mean really, bushfires were happening here long before abortion laws came along.
October 20th, 2009 at 8:56 am Citizen-D(Quote)
The melting pot of religions, beliefs, dates, rituals and ceremonies that have all now been rubber stamped as “Religion X” with followers claiming that has been that way since day dot is laughable. Even when faced with documentary proof these religions will just deny, deny, deny which is part of the reason I find it so difficult that modern day, intelligent people would just follow along like sheep.
October 21st, 2009 at 9:00 pm Rachel(Quote)
OMG Mt Ainslie… My old High School backs onto that and we frequently use to have to go up there for nature walks etc we use to also run up there for Cross Country…
October 21st, 2009 at 9:04 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Admit it Rachel, it was YOU who left blood on the altar.
LOOK WHAT YOU DID!
October 21st, 2009 at 9:20 pm Rachel(Quote)
LOL wish I could but I no longer live in Canberra (thank goodness)The spot is well known for midnight Hanky Panky’s, Japanese Tourists are Constantly there, People getting drunk or High on Fri and Sat Nights… So many ways how blood could have been left there…This Nalliah guy sounds like a Psychotic Dimwit…
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:45 am Roly(Quote)
The hot conditions cause oils to distill from the trees and form a combutable mix in the air. Yes, if this is to become widespread and commonly the new fire behaviour, it’s a real nightmare. A crew is supposed to keep a ratio of 4:1, four times the height of the flames away. When the flames are 100m high that’s 400m away. Your water jets won’t reach and there is basically nothing you can do other than get out of the way.
Yes, fire is now vital for our bush to regenerate, but it depends on a progression of fire events, not one almighty conflagration that leaves just a field of white ash with the odd burnt stick. Ash Wednesday was a hot burn, Black Saturday was hotter.
September 4th, 2010 at 7:45 pm ROSE(Quote)
HAVE READ MANY COMMENTS ON THE INTERNET OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS AND ALL I CAN SAY THE MAJORITY OF YOU ALL ARE HEADING FOR THE DUNNY HOUSE.
January 14th, 2011 at 3:31 am Fred(Quote)
And of course the latest claiming the QLD floods are judgement for Rudd’s words. See Courier Mail.
Then on his website he puts on a face of caring for people in QLD, but even a commenter revels that his judgement comments were in a email mailout.
Now he claims that his prayer (group) stayed the hand of God.
I have done a little research and what stands out is a need he has for promoting himself (listen to his sermons), misquoting the Word of God, and repeating questionable testimonies.
Another thing that stands out is that he has now made a number of Prophecies that have not come about (the ones without the “If” escape clause). If a person’s Prophecies do not come to pass (eg Libs not re-elected) then the Bible says to avoid them as they do not speak God’s word.
And those suits he wears, they are worth many $1000′s, and his building fund. He talks of praying for people but where is the call to fulfill their faith to help the people they see in need. (eg QLDers) No just give me money for my building.
February 7th, 2011 at 12:54 pm Owendy(Quote)
What I do find interesting is how you all are scoffing and justifying yourselves.
Bible Prophecy has been fulfilled “Literally” so far… so we have NO reason to believe that the remaining ones will not be fulfilled the same way.
Unfortunately the voice of the scoffers is tolerated more than the voice of those who are actually interested in your welfare.
Funny how you attack this mans clothing and suggest he should have given the money to QLDers… May I ask, if he wore sackcloth would you listen?? or expect that he present himself better considering he is representing his God ?? Really it would not matter… you are just aggravated by what he is saying.
There will be a famine… it will be of the Word of God… you will search for it with all your heart… but you will not find it, and it will be people like yourselves that will be facing that issue when everything falls apart very quickly.. and yes prophecy tells us you will pay a days wages for 1 loaf of bread shortly… But then you will blame the Christians or Jews for that also…
Since “roe vs wade” 57+million children have died because of selfish attitudes that justify your “needs” at another’s expense.
But then again… thats the way you like it ! So it must be right ey !!
Now think again about what he is saying.. ask yourself… not your friends.
February 7th, 2011 at 4:44 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Uh.. what prophecy?
Yes, yes.. I believe people have been saying this for just over two thousand years now.
‘the sky is falling, the sky is falling!’
Why?
Wouldn’t it just be easier to make your own?
Foetus’ aren’t children. And who are you to try and impose your silly religious beliefs on an unbelieving population at large?
You might believe that humans are the handywork of god and for the most part we respect that. Why can’t you respect that there are others who believe their bodies are their own?
Why? Because it’s easier to dupe an individual than a chorus?
No one person knows everything, it’s human nature to converse and discuss.
February 8th, 2011 at 6:28 am ausGeoff(Quote)
Uh… no they haven’t.
A human foetus is considered non-viable, both medically and legally, until the 24th week of gestation. Abortions are normally performed in the first trimester, so it’s ludicrous to claim that anything (other than a parasitical growth) is destroyed during the procedure.
The god-botherers never give up do they LOL.
February 14th, 2011 at 12:58 pm Owendy(Quote)
This is where it gets interesting… “Non-Viable” so men can get richer.. This is a very lucrative industry for those who wish to silence their conscience.
Lucky that this law was not passed before you became a parasite also, wouldn’t you say… after all… are you and your opinions of any more worth, than the unborn ? Oh thats right… they broke the mould when you arrived.
Yes Prophecy has been fulfilled literally… to the day, but… then again as you enjoy your sin, and are happy on the surface, but when you are alone… now thats a different story.
Yes you people need your “Chorus” as you feel safer in numbers when you are convicted… but your conscience is there for your benefit.. don’t ignore it.
And yes… its been a little over two thousand years… but the Lord is not slack concerning His promise… not willing that any should perish… But He is not mocked… and you will get exactly what you have determined all by yourselves.. because the creation alone, will leave you without any excuse.
He did say it would be about 2000 years… so He is not at fault.
Shame really… you do not have much time left to wake up from your stupor.
Everything will unfold very quickly.. and the scripture says… there will be no escape. You will believe THE lie… and it will be a doozy.
February 15th, 2011 at 9:43 am ausGeoff(Quote)
uh… this doesn’t make any sense. How does the act of a doctor’s performing a termination “silence his conscience”? If he were at all concerned bu his conscience, he’d simply elect NOT to perform the procedure surely? Or are you suggesting that it’s purely for financial gain that doctors perform terminations? If that’s the case, then you have absolutely NO idea as to how the medical profession applies or adheres to its ethics.
I have no problems with this scenario at all. My mum more than wanted me (and my brother) so a termination would never have entered her mind. But the she hadn’t been gang-raped in the back of a car; she wasn’t an abused 14-year-old aboriginal girl; she wasn’t suffering a genetic mental disability; she hadn’t already given birth to a couple of babies with spina bifida or Down syndrome; she didn’t suffer an ectopic pregnancy… you know, all those sorts of totally valid reasons that women have terminations for.
Sorry; this is simply a “straw man” argument. I haven’t sinned — well not according to your Dark Ages definition anyway LOL. I certainly have no reason to “defend” myself against the silly claims of god-botherers!
Um… who exactly is this “Lord” person? Is it the same imaginary friend you have up in the sky that allegedly resolves all our worldly issues, and conveniently absolves you personally of your imagined sins?
Or is it the entity that’s caused billions of dollars worth of damage, and hardship for thousands of innocent Aussies during the recent floods and cyclone, or the 5,000 child deaths on the African continent every day of the year, or the 173 people burned to death on Black Saturday 2009? Just wondering.
Well, at least that part is true. It’s difficult to mock something that exists purely in someone’s distorted view of reality, without any regard to modern science and the unequivocal evidence against the existence of any other-worldly paranormal forces, or supernatural beings.
That’s in all likelihood because the opinions of the scoffers — as you call us — are based on scientific investigation, empirical evidence supporting out arguments, and 21st century logic.
On the other hand, those hypocrites (like you) that pretend to be interested in our welfare are the believers in magic and fantasy, and the fairy stories written by inarticulate illiterates centuries ago. You know, the same “wise” men that were convinced the earth was flat, and the sun revolved around the earth.
February 16th, 2011 at 11:24 pm Owendy(Quote)
Well now… So you believe its Gods fault that everything is unravelling everywhere !
Cause and effect actually.. You reap what you sow… Curse Israel… you will receive the measure you determine as a curse. There are Many cases where this has happened… but you can find this if you look.
Also… should you add murder to rape ?… No of course not, as it was not the childs fault that it has been created, as a result of rape. There are so many people who would love to adopt that little one after birth, and the mother would not suffer the anxiety that women carry after abortion… No it is not a simple thing that goes away… if you do your homework. They ARE affected and do grieve, even though everyone has told them “Its nothing”… a parasite.
Most parents of “Downs syndrome children” find that they have a child capable of extreme love and usually extremely gifted .. and they do not regret the child even though their life was more difficult…. And I do actually know a mother who chose to carry her ‘Spina Bifida ” child… who was a delight even though difficult.
If the moral decay was as bad as when your Mum carried you… things may have been different. You cannot put yourself above this…
many young girls are not taught to value themselves and are marketed to, (money again) and sell themselves cheap to irresponsible men… so they think this is the only solution when the boy moves on, after he is tired of her. Check the
statistics of how many “Boys” stay with the girl after the abortion… the figures are very low.
Doctors who do this, follow money… and there is plenty offered out of your taxes… BTW… are you one of them ??
Most women are not clearly told the “How” they will do the abortion either, and now they abort children full term… perhaps you did not know that ?..
They just don’t deliver the head.. and because it has not taken a breath.. it is not considered a child… Where is this OK with your conscience ??.. because the medical world says this is OK… does your moral compass move with this ?
It is interesting you call them innocent Aussies… what makes them innocent ? do you see what goes on in their lives behind closed doors ? I am not innocent ! but neither are you.
And I assure you… there are MANY scientists with MANY degrees who have tried to disprove the Creation… and have come to believe the truth of the Bible… and they are not stupid by any means as you suggest… Nor are they “Dark age thinkers”… You yourself, are a product of a programmed mind… not one who will search a matter out yourself… you swallow the bait hook line & sinker.
BTW… The scripture clearly states the Earth was round… That it circled the Sun & that you should use running water to avoid disease, and many other “scientific” revelations of the 20th Century… well done to think that we understand anything “new”
If you were wise you would look at some of these “Intelligent” men… to see why they came to their conclusions… you may be surprised… And their reasons ARE scientific.. You really should not assume Christians are stupid just because they think differently than you.
The fact that history is written within the text of the Bible (Cryptology) aside from Prophecy, should have you wanting to find out how, rather than scoffing.. It is a folly to disregard a matter before investigation.
If you are at all scientific… study Quantum Physics… and dimensions… work out how many times you can cut a piece of string in half ! it does have a finite point… so does the measurement of “Time” and ‘Light”… Then you will eventually find out that you live in a “Matrix” environment… and your life as you know it will finish… but you will not…
Where you end up must be determined this side of the grave… I have given you plenty to look into… if you are wise you will, and will not mock. I may be your last voice and even though I am straight with you… I do actually care that you choose wisely.
From the God botherer… = ) BTW… His Name is Jesus the Christ… Your only hope.
February 17th, 2011 at 4:44 am ausGeoff(Quote)
I’m not even going to waste time debating most of your other ill-informed offering, but…
This is so ludicrously laughable that I can only guess you’re an ex Monty Python script writer! Full term is classified as 39 weeks, and NO doctor in Australia would even contemplate a termination at 39 weeks, let alone actually perform one. I challenge you to provide even one single, verifiable link that confirms this. If you do, I’ll reassess my opinion accordingly.
You’re also obviously unaware that a stillborn baby (minimum 20 weeks gestation) is registered as a birth under Section 13 of the Births, Deaths and Marriages Registration Act 1995. In fact, it can not be registered as a death under the same Act. This is is consistent with current World Health Organisation (WHO) standards.
I’d also be pleased if you could name half a dozen or so, and after I’ve investigated their religious conversions I’ll once again reconsider my opinion.
Incidentally, I’m not sure where you read that I suggested scientists are “stupid” — care to point it out? To the contrary in fact; I have the utmost respect and confidence in the scientific method.
I’m not too sure that you understand your own “holy book” either;
Check out Revelation 7-1: “And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.”
Would a spherical body normally be described as having “corners”? I don’t think so. But a huge, flat square of land? Sounds more likely to me.
Job 26-10 says: “He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.” This is often quoted as proof by the believers that the earth is a sphere, but surely it’s just as easy — and logical — that one could hang a cuboid upon nothing? Or any solid shape for that matter.
Another alleged “proof” that the earth was a sphere, and quoted by believers, is from the book of Luke: 17-31 “In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop…” and 17-34 “I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed…” The termination of light and the coming of the dark supposedly indicates the earth as a sphere. Once again, a flat plane could exhibit exactly this property of “night” and “day”, as again could any solid shape.
In actuality, the Greeks were the first to posit a spherical earth: In the sixth century B.C. Pythagoras suggested exactly this. And around 200 years BC, Eratosthenes was the very first person to prove the earth was a globe, and even calculated its circumference!
Um… would your “god” know that I’m a life-long atheist?
February 17th, 2011 at 4:55 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
@Owendy
What prophecy is this?
Because religion is all about individuality and doing your own thing right?
They don’t call it organised religion for nothing. It’s the biggest chorus of duped sheeple the world has ever seen.
Do we have an adoption defecit in Australia? With what certainty can you say there are people queueing up to adopt children?
What about the anxiety of carrying around for nine months the net result of being raped?
Oh dear. Full of rhetoric and a little light on facts there aren’t we?
Yes, yes… and in another thousand years there will still be sheeple waiting… and waiting… and waiting.
February 17th, 2011 at 8:50 am ausGeoff(Quote)
Owendy seems to be under the mistaken impression that there’s hundreds of desperate woman out there falling over themselves in an effort to adopt babies every hour of every day…
This is light years from the truth.
Since the early 1970s in Australia, there’s been a 21–fold decrease in the number of adoptions — from 8,542 in 1972–73 to 412 adoptions in 2009–10.
In 2009-10 there were only 62 local (“unknown”) adoptions in Australia, and 128 “known” adoptions. The remaining 222 were all intercountry adoptees, mainly from Asian countries.
More tellingly, only 7 “special needs” children were adopted in 2009, and all from overseas.
Once again, Owendy is a little(?) short on the facts, but very ably supported by rumours, half-truths and hearsay.
February 17th, 2011 at 10:36 pm Owendy(Quote)
Oh dear ausGeoff… Just give me a day or so to answer all your many many questions…
And yes I will give you some details but I was not sure if you were able to post that here.. But obviously you need to be spoon fed… so I will = )
February 18th, 2011 at 4:41 am ausGeoff(Quote)
I don’t have any issues with you “spoon feeding” me Owendy…
But I would appreciate you answering at least this one single request of mine:
Thanks.
February 18th, 2011 at 8:19 pm Owendy(Quote)
Lee Stroble- Case for Creator.. Searched the matter out… with scientific evidence.
Chuck Missler
Bernard Nathanson- The Silent Scream.
Ivan Nikolayevitsh Panin
Eliyahu Rips- Torah Codes
Francis Sellers Collins
Alister McGrath
Dr. Antony Flew… Not a Christian, although has come to the conclusion that there must be a creator… As evidenced through the Creation.
This will give you a few to investigate… Ivan Panin is excellent if you are mathematical. Look at his study of “The number seven”.
If there is a building… there is a builder… There is creation which is FAR more complex in design than a building…. There is a Creator
Abortion Issues to consider: Dr Bernard Nathanson would hate this now he has seen the evidence.
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/diagram.html
I will list fulfilled prophecies also… I will compile a list … Run out of time today… sorry.
Also… Just for the record… We wanted to adopt a child in Australia… and we were FIRMLY TOLD… There are NO children available for adoption here… only fostering… and many of the disabled ones are also BIG money for care centers… the more assistance… the more money can be claimed… so there is obviously more to that story if you dig.
At least this will give you a few to look at.. If you truly are prepared to know.
February 18th, 2011 at 9:36 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
Thanks Owendy.
Will check ‘em out and get back you.
—Geoff.
February 25th, 2011 at 9:25 pm Owendy(Quote)
Prophetic Facts in the Bible: A section taken from:
http://www.livingwaters.com/tracts/523/Scientific_Facts.pdf
False Bible teachers would have many followers, be money-hungry,
and would slur the Christian faith (see 2 Peter 2:1-3).
Daniel 12:4 tells us that in the last days there will be an increase of travel and knowledge. Men would scoff, and say that these “signs” have always been around. They would also deny the flood of Noah (despite the overwhelming scientific evidence of a universal flood).
The Bible even informs us of their motivation for the denial. It says they would love lust. Then Scripture tells us that they make one big mistake. Their understanding of God is erroneous. They don’t understand that God’s time frame is not the same as ours.
They think (in their ignorance) that God’s continued silence means that He doesn’t see their sins. In truth, He is merely holding back His wrath, waiting for them to repent (see 2 Peter 3:8-9):
“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is
the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the
creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing
out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished” (2 Peter 3:3-6).
Jesus warned that the sign to look for was the repossession of Jerusalem by the Jews. That happened in 1967, after 2,000 years, bringing into culmination all the signs of the times:
“And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled” (Luke 21:24).
These scientific and prophetic facts prove that the Bible is no ordinary book; that it is supernatural in origin, as it so often
claims. It uses the words “Thus says the Lord” 3,800 times, and has 3,856 verses that speak directly or indirectly concerning prophecy.
There is no other book in any of the world’s religions that contain perfectly accurate prophetic and scientific truth. In fact, they contain statements that are clearly erroneous and unscientific.
February 25th, 2011 at 9:36 pm Owendy(Quote)
There are so many prophecies…. But unless you want to study OR if you want more involved information… I will wait for you to ask…
The Bible is really the most amazing book.. If you are unsure… Ask God to prove to you that He is trustworthy… I assure you.. He is.
February 25th, 2011 at 10:36 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
Strobel was a journalist/lawyer. NEVER a scientist.
Missler as a child developed an intense interest in the Bible; studying it became a favourite pastime. NEVER an atheist.
Bernard Nathanson was Jewish/R.Catholic. NEVER an atheist. Was responsible for performing more than 75,000 abortions.
Panin was derided for his numerical biblical theories. NEVER a scientist and NEVER an atheist.
Rips is a scientist who was an atheist, but is now of Jewish religion.
Collins is a world-renowned geneticist who was an atheist, but is now a practising Christian.
McGrath is a molecular biophysicist who was an atheist but is now of the Christian faith.
Flew was a professor of philosophy and an atheist. It seems unclear whether or not he ever actually converted to any religious faith.
—Best I could do.
February 25th, 2011 at 11:00 pm Owendy(Quote)
Lee Strobel wanted scientific proof.. to change his “Atheist” stand.. so set out to have his atheist view proved correct after anger with his wife’s conversion…. but found science proved Creator… and got saved after investigation.
Bernard Nathanson… was Jewish… but that does not make him religious… many Jews are “atheists”… but there is a prophetic reason for that. He became a catholic AFTER ultrasound changed his view.
Pannin was a mathematician… had no faith.. but came to faith with the perfect numerical balance of the scripture and it became an obsession…
Flew did not become a Christian.. but came to the conclusion there must be a Creator.
I chose these men for their obvious credentials… and coming to their conclusions for scientific reasons. There are many atheists that change their minds.. after study, but I listed these as their backgrounds were readily available..
You did well.
February 25th, 2011 at 11:10 pm Owendy(Quote)
Bt the way…. I threw Chuck Missler in there because his study on Cryptology proves the seal of God is on the Bible… I knew he was not an atheist … Just testing = )
His investigations and others, are also readily available with history written under the text giving names, places and events..
August 28th, 2011 at 10:31 pm Patricia(Quote)
oh please, Danny is a blessed man full of wisdom.
I believe and have seen god work through his life and I pray that the people speaking against catch the fire will be forgiven. I pray that you all realize that god loves us and wants us to come to him so he can give us eternal life.
August 29th, 2011 at 12:57 am ausGeoff(Quote)
You must be kidding…
Is this the same evil, misguided, dishonorable, egotistical moron that said of the disastrous QLD floods:
“…at once I was reminded of Kevin Rudd speaking against Israel on 14th December 2010. It is very interesting that Kevin Rudd is from QLD. Is God trying to get our attention? Yes, I believe so.”
And of the killer 2009 Victorian bushfires:
“That he had received ‘prophetic dreams’ on October 21, 2008 that these bushfires were a ‘consequence’ of Victoria’s decriminalisation of abortion in 2008”
And of homosexuals:
“Homosexuals can be ‘turned back’ to heterosexual relationships through education and through Christ. Our position is that homosexuality is not OK.”
What sort of “wisdom” is this Patricia? Do you agree with this man’s views on these particular issues? Do you hate homosexuals? Do you think god would kill people as “payback” for permitting abortions? Or simply to “get our attention”?
I unashamedly and fearlessly call this man out as unworthy to be seen, or speak or write in any public forum. And I certainly don’t need you to patronise me by suggesting that I need to be “forgiven” Patricia.
That you obviously have a belief in paranormal events, and supernatural entities is fine by me, but please don’t assume that anyone else living in an enlightened 21st-century society does.
Nalliah is nothing more than a money-grubbing charlatan of the lowest order. The true scum of bottom feeders.
August 29th, 2011 at 2:31 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Yeah, Nalliah is about as far from wisdom as you can get.
And no amount of praying is going to save him or his followers, you nutjobs should be utterly ashamed of yourselves.
August 29th, 2011 at 10:17 am Owendy(Quote)
Oh dear ozsoapbox… “nutjobs ? “…. ashamed of what ?? not agreeing with you?
For a start, homosexuality is just another sin as far as God is concerned… in the bin with those who lie… and you and I, along with everyone else fits here.
God hates the sin NOT the sinner… and we are all in that category… and we all NEED forgiveness.
What is wisdom ozsoapbox, to you ?? To deny a creator ?… what is funny is that Homosexuality is a judgement that befalls a nation that does deny a creator.. you know the ones… they worship the creation and not the creator… pantheism repackaged today.
Perhaps you could look at “Transhumanism”… or “singularity” just to see how dangerous the times are now… we are back in the days of Noah… just as the prophecies tell us.
As far as being an “Athiest” is concerned… you proclaim that you yourselves are god… because you believe that you have looked absolutely everywhere on earth, in the heavens and below the earth and proven that there is no God… you should perhaps call yourselves “Agnostics”… which means “You do not know for sure”… or without knowledge..
Why should we be ashamed ??… because we see danger coming.. and you just want to go back to sleep ?
We have the right to have a voice just the same as you.. and we have the right to our opinions.
It becomes a socialist camp when you take away the right of people to choose for themselves.. and even take the opportunity for them to find out, away. Would you rather the Governments take all information away about Christianity, from all children… so they never get to choose. Would you like someone to have already decided for you what you can and can not believe… or would you rather hear, and choose freely.
Heaven, hell, angels, demons, homosexuals, muslims… all these things the Christian can be prosecuted for… but the latter are exempt from the same… who is looking out for who ??
This is the new plans ahead… others deciding that people do not need to know anything other than what we deem them to know.. Fun stuff ey ??
The nature of fire is to burn, if you place your hand in the fire…and get burned.. you don’t blame the fire… do you ?.. because thats its nature.
God is a consuming fire, and sin will burn in His presence.. this does not make God unfair.
We have sin… and will die… thats why we needed Jesus.. He is the payment for us… completely your choice. He came exactly when prophesied.. and died exactly as the prophecy said He would.
The odds for the fulfillment to the detailed list of prophecy that we have been provided with, cannot be measured statistically.. He is your only way out.
But … you don’t believe… and thats your choice, He gave you a free will.
August 29th, 2011 at 10:56 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
No, ashamed of the nonsense you and your ilk spout.
Uh, did you talk to him and find out? What’s your source?
I hope it’s not a conversation you had in your head with yourself.
Given the vastness of the universe, it’s certainly not the belief that some magical pie in the sky ‘created‘ us and Earth exclusively.
As opposed to religion packaged in the dark ages?
It’s not as if religion is some concept that has been around since the dawn of time. The dinosaurs didn’t believe in Jesus, and I’m pretty sure the amoeba before them weren’t thankful to some imaginary figure.
Yes, yes. And for how long have we been ‘in the time of Noah’ praytell? And for just how much longer do you lot intend to claim that we’re still there?
‘We’re in the time of Noah’ is nothing more than a convenient excuse to attempt to justify the idiocy your religion fosters.
Believe what you want, just don’t preach to those who don’t give a shit, and then wonder why you’re chastised.
…and good luck with that danger, I’ll still be here, the Earth will still rotate and the sun and the moon will still rise and set regardless of what ‘days’ we’re in.
And I have a right to challenge those opinions as I see fit.
It is not the government’s role to provide information about Christianity to children or anyone else. Anyone caught doing this should be dismissed.
You and ‘the children‘ (oh, won’t somebody think of them? – lame) are free to believe whatever you want. It’s got nothing to do with the government.
As for prophecy. Is the concept that something predicted by man that is entirely influenced by the actions of man came to be?
What about all the bullshit prophecies since that actually rely on god himself, rather than the mere death of someone here on Earth?
August 29th, 2011 at 5:40 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
Unfortunately Oz, you’ll be wasting your time getting involved with people such as Owendy who are so thoroughly steeped in centuries-old religious dogma, they can no longer think rationally for themselves, but repeatedly spout the Dark Ages dogma written in their “holy” books…
That religionists still regard homosexuality as a “sin” (in whose eyes exactly anyway?) in a supposedly enlightened 21st-century society is embarrassing to say the least. I’m actually surprised that any rational adult would admit to it!
I also take offence that Owendy — who’s never even met me — takes it upon herself to describe me as a sinner. What arrogance! And a sinner in whose eyes? Hers? Or her imaginary friend up in the sky?
I’m personally not even bothering to respond to the ludicrous claims in her posting about the fairy story of heaven and sin and hell. It’d be like trying to have a philosophical debate about the real-world merits of “Alice In Wonderland” LOL.
August 29th, 2011 at 6:14 pm Owendy(Quote)
Ahhh struck a nerve !!
It really amuses me how such “enlightened” 21st Century atheists.. are even reacting to Mr Nalliah… or me who is no-one special. He should not even rate on your radar… but he does.. and what we believe also offends you… and you both assume that we have not studied to come to our decision. And you call us irrational.
It takes far more faith to believe evolution… and BTW… Its also a religion.
BTW… what year were you born ??? how many years from what ??… BC/AD… now… BCE. If He were just a man… why does history pivot on Him ??
There is no point to challenge an unarmed man… you should study more, before you comment on a subject you know very little about.
May I suggest Genesis 1:1 = )
August 29th, 2011 at 7:15 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
Simple answe Owendy…
It may well “amuse” you that Nalliah “rates” on our radar, but obviously not for the same reasons he rates on yours LOL!
Atheists are constantly on the alert for people such as him who are continuously feeding society harmful disinformation. Nalliah stands for everything that’s so wrong about religion. We can only enedeavour to expose these opportunistic frauds for what they are—agents of mischief.
And you’ve neatly (and inadvertently!) reinforced the atheist position—supporting evolution—by your use of the phrase “It takes far more faith to believe evolution”.
“Faith” has absolutely nothing at all to do with evolutionary theory. Whereas religion relies totally on “faith”, and blind unquestioning faith at that.
And it certainly does take more than faith to “believe” evolutionary theory! It takes repeatedly promulgating scientific hypotheses, AND numerous repeated failures in an attempt to prove them—until we find one that works, and fits perfectly the hypothesis.
Science actually sets out to disprove its own hypotheses (which religionists never do). It may seem strange to you that science is constantly trying to disprove the very tenets of its own existence, but that’s exactly why scientific theory is so precise. It doesn’t even include the tiniest iota of faith. Science doesn’t need faith to support it; empirical evidence and repeatability is what supports scientific theory.
Religious theories cannot pass the important tests of reproducibility and repeatability. Religion also can’t pass the falsifiability test, which is the logical possibility that an assertion can be contradicted by an observation or the outcome of a physical experiment.
In other words, religionists claim that miracles (for example) can and do occur. However, this claim is easily dismissed by the simple fact that any observation or experiment does not indicate this. Miracles are simply another(!) construct of the religionists in an effort to support the existence of a supernatural entity that somehow steps in and causes the (alleged) miracle.
This is, of course, a classic non sequitur, or circular argument: Miracles occur, therefore god must exist. And god must exist, because he causes miracles to happen.
And I’m sorry, but I don’t have the faintest idea what you mean by asserting that evolution “is a religion”. Evolutionary processes that have been occurring for more than four billion years have nothing at all to do with “modern”-day religion, which is only measured in thousands of years.
And your bizarre comment about “what year” I was born has what exactly to do with this debate? Obviously, my chronological age has nothing to do with artificial human constraints such as BC or AD, or even BCE. I was born 65 years ago according to the Gregorian calendar. End of story. Why bring a mythical god into it?
August 29th, 2011 at 8:15 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Is that what you call replying to your nonsense?
And he doesn’t, not on my personal radar anyway. Idiots like Nalliah know they won’t register on most people’s radar, so they go out of their way to get there via kooky stunts. These stunts garner media attention, not because they are righteous but because they are absurd, and thus Nalliah and co get to register on our radars.
No it doesn’t. I just happen to think it’s a load of crap. Just because you fruitloops choose to be offended at everything you disagree with, don’t assume the rest of the world is like that.
Fossils and bones vs. a book of fairytales written by men.
Evolution isn’t even a question of faith.
2000 years? We in the west use BCE/AD, you do know there are other calendar systems that have nothing to do with your religion right?
Go and preach the relevance of BCE/AD to the Chinese, Aztecs, Indians, Jewish etc. and see where that gets you.
Oh Nalliah is armed alright, armed with complete rubbish.
(insert smug ‘I’m better than you’ smiley face here)
August 29th, 2011 at 8:31 pm Owendy(Quote)
Oh my… and you have become the decider for society ?… have you decided that everyone should only hear your viewpoint… again.. You are choosing what others believe rather than allowing them freedom of choice.
Hmmm… now there is a statement !
Because He offends you so much… and He loves you so much. See what you do not understand is the difference between those who believe the Bible… and people who are religious.. I am not a religious person.
People who are religious attend things because they have to be seen to do things religiously, like having to go to mass on sunday or you will be ex-communicated..
That is so not like my Father…
I guess that a person who had no eyeball at all… and after prayer.. has one in the socket … the eyeball just evolved scientifically… yeah right.
Or someone who has been pronounced dead.. because his leg is in the back seat of the car.. his arm removed, his chest pierced with a steering wheel.. and pronounced dead by three paramedics… could wake up after prayer, singing… Investigate Don Piper.
Anyway… what you have written really says nothing other than what the school wants you to know.. You have not researched for yourself still.
Better keep watch for us Christians… We obviously rattle your cage.
Nice to have another chat with you ausGeoff.
August 29th, 2011 at 10:25 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
I have to admit that I agree with this Owendy…
It’s up to us rationalists, skeptics and those of a scientific bent to be constantly on the alert for the sort of dangerous misinformation the religionists preach to an often all-too-gullible society.
And I can’t really believe that you accept the fanciful story of Baptist minister Don Piper about his alleged visit to “heaven”?
Reading about Piper’s death experience it’s patently obvious that he was pronounced dead prematurely by the paramedics on the scene. Piper’s supporters seem very anxious to believe their preferred interpretation of the event, while ignoring the very simple possibility that he was not actually dead, but rather seriously injured, and in shock.
It would seem as though the paramedics who first saw the horrific nature of the crash and the severity of Piper’s injuries erroneously assumed that he must have died instantly. Even if they checked for a pulse they may not have been able to feel one.
There simply is no convincing medical evidence that Piper was actually dead when he claims that his heavenly experience took place. Piper’s experience—assuming he didn’t consciously fabricate it—may not even have even occurred while he was “dead”. He may have compiled it from various dreams and hallucinations during his long and painful period of rehabilitation, as he told nobody else about it immediately—which is strange in itself.
He actually waited a couple of years before he mentioned to anyone else that he saw heaven, which is plenty of time for his already “god-biased” mind to fill in the details and conflate imagination with original memories. It was years later that he decided to write a book—lots more time for those details to be filled in.
It’s well documented by psychologists, of course, that the more times you recall an event, the less reliable your memory becomes—that’s because each time you recall it, it’s inevitably mixed together with your interpretations of it at that time, and then that mixture is stored back into your memory.
So we can safely write Piper off as a money-grubbing opportunistic fraud.
And regarding this comment…
Certainly not; I’m not that vain! Scientific reason and logic and evidence is the “decider” for society. I’m simply a fervent supporter of the scientific view. We simply can’t allow for a progressive society to be driven by people who believe in the paranormal, and imaginary gods—as they did thousands of years ago.
And could you please provide a link to this claim…
Incidentally, I’m not going to argue the toss about religiosity and/or belief in the bible; that’s purely a matter of semantics that’s intended to blur the line.
August 29th, 2011 at 11:54 pm Owendy(Quote)
Who deems them to be gulliable ?… those who think they are scientific by reason and logic without real evidence ?… you still don’t get it… you feel the desperate need to protect the society as a whole from being able to hear and choose… you are a person who would probably prefer to live behind the Iron Curtain… They thought like you… the masses should never hear, so they don’t have the chance to choose… Then they will be all the same…. masses that only think like you.. how sad… ask those who grew up there… who now live here if they preferred that life…
Because we know that there are more dimensions than that which we currently experience or have experienced a spiritual event, does not make us simple or foolish you know… It just means you have not… yet.
You really are not very rational to just simply assume that we are ignorant and base because we know something, you have not discovered yet.
And you really should investigate Transhumanism… it will become an E.L.E.
But then, you are what is called a useless eater… along with me… despite your enlightened 21st century knowledge… you will soon be a sub-species.. but you will think that this is good !… because you are happy to have science wipe us out with our government support.
Population reduction is already being rolled out.. and you and your kids (if you have them) will become… adult.. non-viable parasites.. then we have come full circle.
August 30th, 2011 at 3:11 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Or (and far more likely) it just means your delusional.
As evidenced by the rest of your rant. Denying scientific evidence? Please.
‘I’ll believe what some guys sat around and wrote thousands of years ago… but scientific evidence? Oh no, that’s too much for me!‘
Good luck with that.
August 30th, 2011 at 3:13 am ausGeoff(Quote)
You obviously missed the part of the story whereby Communism denied the rights of the people to speak out freely, and to publicly question the socioeconomic state of affairs, and the ruling philosophies and even the science of the time.
In fact, communism in its purist form is almost analogous with religion. Everyone must follow the good book; there’s no choice allowed, and no questioning of the book’s instructions.
On the other hand, science and rationalists and philosophers endeavour to communicate everything to the people, and allow them to express their considered opinions freely either in support, or in opposition. Religion doesn’t allow that luxury. Science is always open to suggestion, and in fact some of its methodologies’ most diligent critics are scientists themselves.
I really think you’ve overdosed on George Orwell with this one!
And I’m still waiting for your link to this one…
Or have you conveniently lost it?
August 30th, 2011 at 3:48 am ausGeoff(Quote)
I’ve located the source of the silly “eyeball” story.
It’s from a site called ‘HopeFaithPrayer’ and yes, its name says it all LOL.
This totally unverified, undocumented claim is reported by one Velmer Gardner in an article titled “How You Can Be Healed!” which is excerpted from “The God of Miracles Lives Today” written in 1950 (apparently?)
Velmer also has this to say about her skills of intercessory prayer:
“When I pray for the sick I believe this: I can pray and appropriate the healing virtue of Jesus to your body through the power of His Name.
When you have a cancer, I command that living, evil spirit of cancer to come out of your body. It must obey. There is no other alternative for it, because I command in His power.
Usually, this is the process, if it is a healing: When the command is given, the spirit comes out. The cancer becomes dead flesh in your body. This dead flesh dissolves and passes from your body in a few days, and you will be perfectly well.”
And:
“The working of miracles is different. They are usually instantaneous. When a miracle occurs, a blind eye is instantly restored to perfect vision. Paralyzed, crippled limbs are instantly straightened out, etc.
Then there are creative works. A man had his entire eyeball torn out. He was prayed for, and instantly had a new eyeball with perfect vision.
— I’m really astounded that modern scientists and doctors haven’t thought of using these cheap and easy at-home remedies for curing cancer and blindness. All they needed was to be “creative”! And think of all the hospitals we could shut down.
Would certainly make Julia Gillard’s day LOL.
August 30th, 2011 at 10:51 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
What, cancer has a spirit now?
These people are beyond retarded.
August 30th, 2011 at 10:30 pm Owendy(Quote)
Your choice… the “red” pill… or the “blue” pill…
How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go… or would you rather go back to sleep ?
The sure way to ensure ignorance…. is to assume you already know it all…
August 31st, 2011 at 3:08 am ausGeoff(Quote)
Not true by any means Owendy…
Another way to “ensure” ignorance is to unquestioningly follow the tenets of some other person or persons, and accept those tenets as the absolute, immutable truth.
We need to constantly examine the “truths” of others, and if we find we disagree, or they don’t stand up to our scrutiny, we must challenge those alleged truths.
If the challenge is successfully defended, and the proponent’s “truth” is proven, then we also must accept that in all fairness.
In the case of religion, with its beliefs in the supernatural and paranormal, any of its “truths” can not be proven. There is simply no credible hypothesis that supernatural entities (such as gods) do—or could—exist. If a religionist were to set up a meaningful hypothesis—for the existence of the supernatural—for me to examine, I’d be more than happy to spend some time doing so.
Time and again though, religionists simply quote from their holy book. For the truly unbiased investigator, this is grossly insufficient “evidence” of anything therein being an absolute truth. I can replicate, with absolute certainty, Isaac Newton’s three laws of motion, as described by him nearly 400 years ago.
On the other hand, virtually no “miracles” ascribed to the Bible can be replicated today—even using the latest scientific technology.
One famous (or infamous!) example: Jesus turned six stone ceremonial jars full of water into wine. Instantly! Can we do that today even armed with all our scientific knowledge? Of course not.
This is often quoted as the first of Jesus’s “miracles”. Obviously it was a stunt worthy of David Copperfield, but the ill-educated scribes of the day of course believed what they saw—or in actuality what they “thought” they saw.
How many other myths does the Bible contain?
August 31st, 2011 at 10:36 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Seriously, you’re quoting the Matrix now…?
/facepalm.
August 31st, 2011 at 5:51 pm Owendy(Quote)
I have already given you plenty of “Non-Religious” information for you to follow that will uncover the “Scientific” areas that they are delving into now… but you assume you know it all ??
You obsession with returning to the same poor scenario about Christians quoting the Bible to you… Look at the scientific subjects that I have given you to begin with..
And dear soapbox… is that the extent??? truly ??.. at least ausGeoff has an opinion that he expresses…
You do not have all that much time to investigate.. Look at H.A.A.R.P. Thats a simple one for you.
Or go back to sleep, believing the media and your local government indoctrination.. After all.. Thats easier !… just not smart.
August 31st, 2011 at 6:27 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Yes yes, it’s far more smarter to just believe in made up nonsense.
August 31st, 2011 at 8:41 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
I’m actually surprised that you brought up HAARP Owendy…
I’m not quite certain as to why exactly? Doesn’t HAARP in fact demonstrate precisely the prowess, and actualisation of scientific hypotheses into proven facts—and its truths? Doesn’t HAARP—in some ways—make religious beliefs seem even more far-fetched?
Or are you referring to the “conspiracy theorists” who claim that HAARP is responsible for a multitude of things such as earthquakes, hurricanes, chronic fatigue syndrome in humans, the downing of aircraft, and even the potential reversal of the Earth’s magnetic poles!
From my point of view, supporting an argument by (simply) quoting from the bible is—effectively—making use of a non sequitur.
Whereas if I quote content from Newton’s “Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica” which was published in 1687, I can be absolutely positive I’m quoting one of the immutable laws of physics, not a single on of which has been been disproved in all that time.
The same (obviously) cannot be said about the bible.
August 31st, 2011 at 11:55 pm Owendy(Quote)
Not at all… This for us, fulfills prophecy.. but you see this as “Oh how scientifically smart we are…” but why do you assume that we are smarter than those who lived back in history ?
they created buildings that they still cannot calculate the stresses involved even with newtons calculus… and our super computers… There is nothing new under the sun ?.. But then.. we just have not realized that we are in decay, as is the speed of light.
(Montgomery’s regression curve)
A Conspiracy theory is only a theory, if there are no facts. They themselves document the ability to do all these things, and also that this is what the system has been created for. They admit that if they did not create this, and use this… another would, and could.
But I am not… you continue to return to this scenario again… you in fact are fulfilling a “non sequitur” But just for you… coz you like maths so much… and annoyed so much you keep returning to it..
Mathematically… calculated by Panin obviously using Newton’s work
Chances of Multiples of 7
For 2 72 = (7 x 7) 49
For 3 73 = (7 x 7 x 7) 343
For 4 74 = (7 x 7 x 7 x 7) etc. 2,401
For 5 75 16,807
For 6 76 117,649
For 7 77 823,543
For 8 78 5,764,801
For 9 79 40,353,607
For 10 710 282,475,249
For 11 711 1,977,326,743
For 12 712 13,841,287,201
For 13 713 96,889,010,047
For 14 714 678,223,072,849
For 15 715 4,747,561,509,943
For 16 716 33,232,930,569,601
For 17 717 232,630,513,987,207
For 18 718 1,628,413,597,910,449
For 19 719 11,398,895,185,373,143
For 20 720 79,792,266,297,612,001
For 21 721 558,545,864,083,284,007
For 22 722 3,909,821,048,582,988,049
For 23 723 27,368,747,340,080,916,343
For 24 724 191,581,231,380,566,414,401
For 25 725 1,341,068,619,663,964,900,807
For 26 726 9,387,480,337,647,754,305,649
For 27 727 65,712,362,363,534,280,139,543
For 28 728 459,986,536,544,739,960,976,801
For 29 729 3,219,905,755,813,179,726,837,607
For 30 730 22,539,340,290,692,258,087,863,249
For 31 731 157,775,382,034,845,806,615,042,743
For 32 732 1,104,427,674,243,920,646,305,299,201
For 33 733 7,730,993,719,707,444,524,137,094,407
For 34 734 54,116,956,037,952,111,668,959,660,849
For the last 12 verses of Mark:
• Words 175 (7 x 25)
• Rest of the passage 119 (7 x 17)
• vv.19-20 35 (7 x 5)
• Vocabulary 98 (7 x 7 x 2)
• Letters 553 (7 x 79)
- Vowels 294 (7 x 42)
- Consonants 259 (7 x 37)
• Words, total 175 (7 x 25)
• Address of the Lord 56 (7 x
• vv.9-11 35 (7 x 5)
• vv.12-18 105 (7 x 15)
• v.12 14 (7 x 2)
• vv.13-15 35 (7 x 5)
• vv.16-18 56 (7 x
The New Testament consists of 27 books.
Terminations: each book begins and ends with a word: 2 x 27 = 54 words:
Total vocabulary of 28 (7 x 4)
In the Gospels 7 (7 x 1)
Total gematrical value 46,949 (7 x 6707)
Value of the shortest word, 70 (7 x 10)
Value of longest word, 1512 (7 x 6 x 6 x 6)
These are just a few of Panin’s calculations
The chances for this to be recreated:
• 7×34 = ~5.4 x 10 to the 28 tries would be needed.
• There are ~3.15 x 10 to the 7 sec/year;
• 400 million tries per second?
• At 4 x 10 to the 8 tries/sec, it would take about 4.3 x 10 to the12 computer-years:
= 1,000,000 supercomputers 4,300,000 years
And that is with 34 distinctive features of 7… Panin identified 75 distinctive features in just one small section of the book of Mark.
This same mathematical seal is on every book and also links each book numerically.
But then we just believe in fairytales… Of course the Bible could not be more than that could it…
What were you saying ??
Come on soapy… you can do it..your comments are lacking something…
September 1st, 2011 at 12:05 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
What the hell does this maths shit have to do with anything? I feel like I’m reading a freaking Dan Brown novel here.
…and you’re confusing me with ausgeoff.
September 1st, 2011 at 12:19 am Owendy(Quote)
Now you can’t speak for ausGeoff… just yourself..
ausGeoff believes the Bible is just fairytales because he has not investigated anything further than stories.
The Bible is mathematically sound.
In truth.. if I was not certain what will happen when I die.. I would investigate all information available because after all, you only get one chance at it… and it is the ultimate statistic.. are you so sure you will just cease to exist ?
September 1st, 2011 at 12:21 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
What on earth is ‘mathematically sound’?!
So the bible fits some gigantically irrelevant mathematical co-incidences, and that means what? That it came from god?
I had a shit once that took seven seconds to come out and was exactly seven inches long and seven cm in diameter (7x7x7x89x841x3xONEHUNDREDMILLION!).
It sounded pretty good too.
Does that mean it was god’s shit…?
Between weighing up the obvious that the lights just go out, as they do for every living thing on Earth versus believing in man made false hope that is constructed purely out of fear of the unknown and our own mortality… yeah, lights out seems pretty good.
September 1st, 2011 at 1:45 am ausGeoff(Quote)
Sorry Owendy but even if you could describe a book as “mathematically sound” (whatever that means?) one could come up with a similar sort of bible “proof” in any number of other writings—including fiction…
Consider this…
Analysing the very first line of Edgar Allan Poe’s classic poem “The Raven” which is:
Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary
We find that…
There are 7×7 letters.
The first and last words sum to 202×7, of which the first letters contribute 80×7.
The consonants in words starting with a consonant sum to 537×7.
The consonants in words ending with a consonant sum to 485×7, of which 192×7 comes from the odd length words and 293×7 from the even length words.
The consonants in words 2,4,6,8,10 sum to 177×7.
There are 7 words ending with consonants.
There are 3×7 consonants in words of even length.
Considering words 1,3,5,7,9,11:
There are 3×7 letters.
The even (2,4,6..) letters in each word total 138×7.
The last letters of each word total 205×7.
The first and last letters of each word total 51x7x7.
Considering the verb “pondered”:
The first letter has value 10×7.
The vowels have total value 10×7.
So… back to Panin…
The at-best mediocre mathematician Ivan Panin used the Westcott & Hort edition of the Greek New Testament as the basis of his work. But he also frequently made use of the many alternative readings that those authors suggested. He was happy to pick and choose arbitrarily from all these “variations”, which meant in fact that he was really working with a large number of texts, with very few of them corresponding to any actual manuscript.
After then deliberate modifying the texts to make his alleged patterns work, he then calculated “probabilities” without taking that tweaking into account. Panin even published his own Greek text, carefully tweaked to provide the patterns that were most appropriate!
It’s a pity you mentioned Mark, because Panin’s report on the last twelve verses of Mark begins with his observation that there are 175 = 25×7 words in the Greek text. Not so apparently…
Elzevir’s edition of Textus Receptus (1624) – counts 166 words
Westcott & Hort (1881) – 172
Nestle (1898) – 168
Souter (1947) – 169
Tasker (1961) – 165
Nestle/Aland (1975) – 170
Huck/Greeven (1981) – 168
Considering that Panin allegedly used the Westcott & Hort edition with 172 words, he couldn’t even get that right!
You were saying, Owendy?
September 1st, 2011 at 6:12 am Owendy(Quote)
So this man graduated from Harvard in the United States in 1882, and later became a lecturer on Russian literature. He was also a firm agnostic before he spent over 50 years of his life studying the numerical designs underpinning both the Greek text of the New Testament and the Hebrew text of the Old Testament.
The results of his lifelong study was “over 43,000 detailed, hand-penned pages of analysis” generated before his death in October 1942 in his 87th year. … and you have decided that you can align your amazing = p work here, with a mathematician… (whom you call mediocre).. why would you be here writing to me to prove what ??
… you should be a University professor ! not lowering yourself here.
Yes he used the Westcott & Hort because it was greek which holds a gematra value for each letter.. and BTW 175 is correct.
soapy… you have just given clear insight to your life perspective and limits… Hmmm
September 1st, 2011 at 9:05 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Sorry but I don’t think there’s any life perspective or limits to be found in observing mathematical patterns in books.
This guy sounds like he wasted his life if he spent over 50 years combining maths and the bible. And for what…? What does any of it prove or suggest?
A whole bunch of numbers certainly doesn’t pursuade me that god had anything to do with the bible.
September 1st, 2011 at 8:45 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
Sorry Owendy, but if you’re going to stubbornly refute my (widely-documented) assertion—above—that the Westcott & Hort edition of Mark did in fact contain only 172 words, the there’s not much point in continuing the debate…
You’re obviously a Panin “groupie” and a denialist of the recorded facts! What next pray tell? Oranges are a species of apple—according to your Russian hero? Who, incidentally, graduated form Harvard with a Bachelor of Arts degree, and who never studied mathematics formally (which is why I defined him as “mediocre”).
And how is it that simply because “he spent over 50 years of his life studying…” his results and conclusions were correct? Just because someone (unfortunately) spends a long time studying something doesn’t in and of itself make the conclusions of those studies irrefutably correct. That’s plain silly!
Learned scholars assiduously studied the macrocosm for centuries, but still firmly believed—and allegedly had the “facts” to prove it—that the Earth was flat.
I’d also appreciate your opinions on my comparison with Poe’s “The Raven”, and the way I’ve demonstrated how easy it is to manipulate and formulate imaginary number patterns from virtually any written text.
I also should let you know that I’m in no way impressed (as are all skeptics) by “large number” theories, or “correlation and causation”—as you obviously are.
September 1st, 2011 at 11:21 pm Owendy(Quote)
No ausGeoff not at all, because I have looked also at the ELS codes under the text. Panin’s work is just another who understands the mathematical keys. “The documented assertion” is widely copied by many only of a quick investigation by a man named Ken who even though has a degree in maths his focus is business mergers. His study was not languages as Panin.
I also certainly am not seeking to impress you.. why waste my time unless you were really interested in learning more. I am always interested to learn but I don’t swallow what I am told without investigation.
And it was you that told me earlier that the bible said the world was flat… which was only your lack of investigation and repeating someone elses ignorance about the Bible.
Would you like another subject to discuss or are you done ?
September 2nd, 2011 at 1:28 am ausGeoff(Quote)
Once again you’ve neatly avoided providing specific answers to a couple of my questions—well done…
I interpret these comments to mean that you’d prefer to believe in the mathematical “theories” relating to Mark, in particular—and the bible in general—by a languages expert (Panin) who postulated his ideas more than a century ago, rather than the theories of a doctor of mathematics from the University of Queensland (Dr Ken Smith)?
And although a confirmed skeptic and part-time “bible-basher”, Ken has been an active member of the Baptist church for 60 years.
I’m guessing that you appear not to like Ken—or consider his logic—simply because he’s “one of yours” BUT he has the temerity to question the bible. Oh dear!
And unfortunately for you, the bible does strongly imply (if not actually specify) that the Earth is flat…
Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him ALL the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them. [from one place on a sphere?]
Job 38:13
[...] that it might take the earth by THE EDGES and shake the wicked out of it? [only a flat plane can have 'edges']
Daniel 4:11
The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH. [a sphere has 'ends'?]
Jeremiah 16:19
O Lord, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. ['ends' again!]
Job 38:13
That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? [more 'ends' LOL]
Revelation 7:1
And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. [and now the spherical earth has 'corners'?]
You’d have to agree that the words ‘edges’, ‘ends’, ‘corners’ more aptly describe a flat—rather than a spherical—object. Wouldn’t you?
And I’ll try again…
I’d also appreciate your opinions on the comparison with “The Raven”, and the way it can be demonstrated how easy it is to manipulate imaginary number patterns from virtually all written texts.
September 2nd, 2011 at 11:50 am Owendy(Quote)
This is where you have problems… you have difficulty with dimensions.. This verse was an inter dimensional or what you would term spiritual experience. The God we know exists outside of time that we live in… eternity. People mostly think that we Christians think that God has lots of time… but He is outside time.
Daniel 4.11 is referring to a dream / vision given, to weed out the false soothsayers etc so that Daniel would be the only one able to give the interpretation.. not a good choice here.
Jeremiah 16.19 refers to people from all nations coming to Him.. after Israel is returned to the land which happened in 1948… good choice.. a fulfilled prophecy stating how they were scattered among the nations and have been brought back… another fulfilled prophecy was the nation being born in a day.
Revelation 7.1… north, south, east & west… this is a future prophecy.. the wind is going to stop… thats something to look forward to !
The sun is going to scorch people… and hail that will get to the size of around 60lb. You will pay a days wages for 1 loaf of bread… are you aware that there is less than 1 weeks food supply stored ?? I hope you have prepared for the economy to collapse… thats pretty close too.
Sorry but the verses you have chosen just don’t work for you, as they are not in context and you have just selected a word to try to prove a point.. the only one would be Job 38.13 but if you read this also in context it means, from all lands, and that God would shake every nation to expose those who are against him… so I guess thats you !! = )
I will look into the raven for you…
September 2nd, 2011 at 8:50 pm Owendy(Quote)
Well with just a quick look here, this calculation was created by loading a cypher as per each alphabetical letter.. Calvin has stated that Panin used a method like this to complete his work… but Panin used the Greek, which has a specific numeric value for each letter which has always been constant…
The cypher allocated to ‘The Raven” really is not the same because the Greek numeric is not allocated for this specific purpose, it is part of a numerical language as a constant. Hebrew is a picture graph language like Chinese or Japanese.. so it is like watching a story more than reading a story.
Besides… I think that the New Testament was originally written in both Greek and Aramaic…. not Hebrew…But I could be incorrect here.
The Old Testament Torah was Hebrew… and this is loaded with ELS codes that if you even remove one letter, the whole system falls apart… that is why the scriptures were so painstakingly copied and protected over the centuries… and how the documents found at the Dead sea were pretty much the same as our book of Isaiah now.
The Scripture is layer upon layer…they know the codes are many layers deep and they name people and places usually under a verse that describes an event or a warning.
So I am not so much a Panin fan but I certainly do believe that there is a distinct numeric pattern that interlocks each book, I do however acknowledge that he was so obsessed with what he discovered that he was prepared to spend his life studying just how intricate the design is…
So people who scoff and say that he was mediocre or stupid do not understand his motivation… thats all. What he found was enough for him to humble himself and become a Christian… a free choice.
BTW… New Physics are coming to a concept that the universe is flat….thats science for you.
September 2nd, 2011 at 11:05 pm ausGeoff(Quote)
I’m guessing that it’s more likely you have problems with “dimensions” Owendy…
I’m a realistic, from coming from a long-term career in engineering and its inherent mathematical prerequisites.
To me—as a rationalist—the terms “inter-dimensional” and “spiritual experience” have no meaning. They’re simply terms utilised by people who have a belief in the supernatural as an easy defense against the scientific claims of people such as me.
A spiritual experience usually involves the recognised psychological phenomenon of of “projection” which mistakenly attributes a reality outside oneself (gods?) as one’s inner feelings.
For example, I cannot accept that a glorious, spectacular sunset is the work of an unknowable, unseen god. To the contrary, it would seem that this so-called “spiritual” experience usually involves this recognised psychological projection.
Looking beyond the aesthetics of the sunset, science supplies the obvious answer: the relative alignment of the Earth and the Sun, and the way in which the clouds refract and reflect light waves. One doesn’t need a god to explain sunsets, or anything else for that matter.
Once again, you’ve fallen into the old trap of interpreting too many biblical passages literally—when you choose and it supports your argument—but at the same time, interpreting so many others passages allegorically, or metaphorically.
You can’t have it both ways Owendy. Even I can’t do that with an irrefutable (even by you) treatise such as Isaac Newton’s “Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica”: why should I allow you the luxury of doing this with one of your holy books?
September 3rd, 2011 at 12:59 am Owendy(Quote)
Yes you are guessing… Einstein estimated many. This may interest you… Its nothing to do with the Bible…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory#Number_of_dimensions
Chuck Missler has earned a Masters Degree in engineering from UCLA and a Ph.D. from Louisiana Baptist University. Chuck has worked as a systems engineer at TRW, followed by a Senior Analyst position serving both the intelligence community and the Department of Defense… He understands dimensions and with working with the intelligence field has experience with classified events…So this has nothing to do with being realistic… and its ok to say you don’t know something.
Sorry ausGeoff… I do read the scripture literally.. All the prophecies have been fulfilled literally so far so there is absolutely no reason to expect that they will not continue to untill this winds up.
Saying that I am using the others because I understand them is unfair because the scripture interprets itself.. each thing like the beasts of Revelation are explained who they represent in other passages.. This is why the scripture tells you to study and show yourself approved.
I am still learning myself but there is too much truth and proof for me to walk away.
The thing is, you have not studied the Bible, only picked at bits and read other scoffers who justify their stand.
For me though I would rather investigate myself than have someone make up my mind for me.. But like I said thats my choice.
I love sunsets… but I see this as the handiwork of God. Just a different perspective.
Have you looked at the moon lately ?… its changed.
September 3rd, 2011 at 4:22 am ausGeoff(Quote)
This a major, major mistake Owendy…..
The mathematically-gifted logician Lewis Carroll won a First Class Honours degree in mathematics, as well as a Second Class Honours degree in the classics at Oxford University, where he later became a mathematics lecturer of more than 25 years standing.
He also wrote Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland. Can I assume you also read that “literally”?
Could you explain why you (apparently) believe everything you read in the bible—as demonstrated here on this blog by yourself—but wouldn’t believe one single word of Alice?
Did it ever occur to you that—just maybe—the bible is simply a collection of fairy stories or fantastical writings? After all Alice was written by a vastly better educated, more articulate and erudite individual than those who wrote the various bits and pieces of the bible.
I’m sorry, but I don’t understand this comment about prophecies coming to fulfillment…
Could you please elaborate?
And I’m not quite certain as to how you can possibly know this…
I don’t ever recall us having a meeting in person, or are you simply being overly-presumptuous here?
As a matter of interest, until I reached my teenaged years and became an atheist, I was brought up in a strictly Methodist household. I actually received my very own(!) bible at around 11 or 12 years of age (which I must admit that at that naive time in my life I was very proud of, and I can still see the gilt printing on the dark blue cover, and the drop lake marbling on the book’s edges that so impressed me).
Well, this is one thing we do agree on… sunsets…
I see them (from a purely anthropocentric perspective, that is) as simply a dramatic manifestation of a unique combination of atmospheric and cosmic conditions. Whereas you see them as being created(?) by some supernatural entity—a god?
Which sounds the more likely?
— BTW I thank you for elaborating your thoughts on “The Raven” stuff.
September 3rd, 2011 at 10:41 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Name 5 propechies that have been fulfilled.
(vague ‘could-be-anything’ prophecies are not allowed).
September 3rd, 2011 at 11:01 pm Owendy(Quote)
No… History continues to affirm the scripture. Sorry ausGeoff I just cannot accept “Alice” literally because the story does not display the actual state of our heart as the Bible does.
The heart of man is deceitful above all things, but even the book of Proverbs teaches me how to react, how to live and who to avoid, where ‘Alice” just does not cut it… : )
As I said before, the pattern within scripture that ties all the books together cannot be ignored, 66 books by at least 40 different authors over thousands of years that are all interlocked, shows me that the scripture is completely inspired by God. I know you don’t believe this, and that’s your choice, but this is why I believe it literally… this is not a mistake at all but a choice… also Lewis Carroll is just not in the same category as Solomon… remember he was not fictitious but a historical person who lived.
Some fulfilled prophecy… sorry… you will have to read the links also.
Two ancient Jewish prophets, Jeremiah and Zephaniah, foretold of a day when Hebrew would once again be spoken by the Jewish people when they return to the land of their forefathers, the land of Israel.
Jeremiah 31:23 states that the Lord would return the language of Hebrew to His people once He gathered them from around the world and brought them back into their land. Zephaniah 3:9 says the Lord would give the Jews a pure language, Hebrew, the language of the Bible and He would give it to the Jews, the people of the Bible, in the land of Israel, the land of the Bible.
Even though there is a debate over the official language of Israel, Hebrew has indeed been revived in the Last Days as Bible prophecy said it would be.
http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/276/
This was written is a few years ago when Yassir Arafat was alive, but we have the Palestinians going to the UN on Sept 20 this year. The prophetic detail still stands.
http://www.khouse.org/articles/2004/552/
Do you still have your Bible… or did you throw it away once you decided that it was foolish ? It was not naive to be proud of a gift.
Having one and studying it are quite different… most people have one, somewhere…. gathering dust. The thing is those who pray to be shown if the Bible is inspired, are shown, but as the scripture says the preaching of the Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing.
Have you noticed that the moon has moved or rotated ?
September 3rd, 2011 at 11:02 pm Owendy(Quote)
BTW… What were you doing up at 4.20 in the morning ??… sleep !
September 4th, 2011 at 1:18 am ausGeoff(Quote)
LOL…
Owendy: BTW… What were you doing up at 4.20 in the morning ??… sleep !
I’ve got a sleep disorder known as N-24, or “sleep dysphasia” which means my circadian rhythm causes me to have a “free-running” sleep cycle.
Owendy, from what I’ve read lately, there seems to be an element of doubt about Solomon. Some modern Christian scholars are doubting that “King” Solomon in fact wrote the scriptures attributed to him, and some of the more skeptical Christian scholars are expressing a degree of doubt that Solomon was even a real person.
Whomever it was wrote the First Book of Kings—and the Second Book of Chronicles—couldn’t (obviously) foresee the detailed authentication afforded by 21st-century archaeology.
King Solomon’s city in Jerusalem is believed to have been below the hill on what is now the Al-Aqsa mosque. Israeli archaeologists have been continually excavating this site for decades, but not even ONE single piece of evidence for the existence of King Solomon has ever been found. No mention of that name has been found on any artifacts such as hieroglyphs, pot decorations or tax records.
How can it be that the existence of Pharaoh Rameses II, who reigned three centuries prior to Solomon is well recorded, yet King Solomon, who allegedly ruled over a vast empire (according to Kings and Chronicles) left no trace whatsoever.
And those in vassalage to him left not a single record of taxes, accounts or inscriptions. None of the soldiers of his conquering armies left any swords, shields or helmets behind (for potential modern-day archeological discovery).
So…..
I think before we bore the pants off everyone here LOL, we’re going to have to “agree to disagree” Owendy.
And one final—and admittedly fatuous—question for you: Can you “prove” to me unequivocally that the story of “Alice” did not really happen? That it was purely fiction?
After all, the character of “Alice” was based entirely upon one of Carroll’s real-life friends; Alice Pleasance Liddell.
September 4th, 2011 at 1:28 am ausGeoff(Quote)
Not sure why you’ve asked me this twice… bit off-topic…
Briefly(!) — Yes the Moon does rotate, continuously. Yes, its rotational rate is slowing. Yes; it’s moving away from the earth at roughly 4cm per year.
September 4th, 2011 at 8:31 am Owendy(Quote)
It does spin (with a period of about 28 days), that’s why we always see the same side as it revolves around the earth… Why has it turned around about 90 degrees clockwise… The same side changed direction… ?
I know its off the topic.. but not for me.. I just thought you may know why..
September 5th, 2011 at 1:46 pm Owendy(Quote)
http://cnpublications.net/2008/01/17/first-temple-evidence/
This was found in 2008 but not surprising with the events in Israel in the last few years that they would rather this sort of information slip quietly into the night.
King Solomon is in the Genealogy of Christ being that he was the son of King David. The Arch of Titus in Rome clearly depicts in stone, the spoils of the temple that were carried away from Israel when Israel was dispersed among the nations around 70AD. If this was the second temple, there was a first and it was bigger.
Solomon actually had other names… one was Jeddadiah which was given him by the prophet Nathan.
Here is another prophecy for you… Tyre & Sidon… God said that they would not use this city for anything again other than for drying fishing nets and for people to wonder why…
Thats ok to disagree = )
I just don’t have any life changing Ah Haa! moments with Alice… Proverbs … now there is a book.
No I cannot say that Alice’s experience did not happen…. but then if you eat strange things you can have strange experiences !!
January 16th, 2012 at 9:06 pm Mark La Brooy(Quote)
Catch the Fire is an evil right wing extremist religion.
According to them all Muslims are evil.
Nalliah went on TV to say exactly that and to claim that they abducted and possibly murdered a woman whose husband has now been arrested for the murder. The husband has reportedly confessed to the murder.
Only hours earlier, Nalliah and his “flock” were seen on national TV trying to pacify the alleged perpetrator believing his innocence.
I am a Sri Lankan by birth. Nalliah and his church must be cast into an abyss from which they cannot re-emerge.
Australia does not need right wing Christians such as these. They are as bad as all extremists, Islamic, Hindu and Jewish.
January 16th, 2012 at 10:12 pm Owendy(Quote)
Hi Mark,
You most likely would be unaware of what is happening in Nigeria at the moment also… most of the world has been conveniently left uninformed…
It amazes me that Christians around the world are being exterminated … and it is constantly ignored by the media… Oh thats right…. who owns that !!
If it means to speak out against things that are wrong… then I am one that will also.
Why do we have councils paying Muslims large wages on city councils.. to educate the community about muslims….
I do not see the same benefits provided to other religions… buddists, Hindu’s etc…. so why do we need to be educated all of a sudden about muslims… wake up. There is a bigger plan afoot and you are being manipulated to believe that this is wrong to speak out.
Did you know that muslims are required to kill you ??… They may be peace loving people but when required… they will have to act or be considered an infidel themselves.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Acts17Apologetics
You will learn what he is talking about here.
January 16th, 2012 at 10:55 pm Owendy(Quote)
Here is one for Australia…
You are just fulfilling stage one for them.
If you love the freedom that Australia has afforded YOU… and Christianity, because Christianity gives YOU freedom of religion… it allows you to have a free will to choose for yourself even if it speaks the truth… and you don’t like it… Christians will not kill you for being an unbeliever.
Muslims do not allow you that.. and they are using the legal funding of the courts in the western world to achieve their goal.
Others on this thread may not agree with me.. and thats fine… The anger in your thread would make me question your motive to comment this way.
Are you a muslim too ???