You are just fulfilling stage one for them.

If you love the freedom that Australia has afforded YOU… and Christianity, because Christianity gives YOU freedom of religion… it allows you to have a free will to choose for yourself even if it speaks the truth… and you don’t like it… Christians will not kill you for being an unbeliever.

Muslims do not allow you that.. and they are using the legal funding of the courts in the western world to achieve their goal.

Others on this thread may not agree with me.. and thats fine… The anger in your thread would make me question your motive to comment this way.

Are you a muslim too ???

You most likely would be unaware of what is happening in Nigeria at the moment also… most of the world has been conveniently left uninformed…

It amazes me that Christians around the world are being exterminated … and it is constantly ignored by the media… Oh thats right…. who owns that !!

If it means to speak out against things that are wrong… then I am one that will also.

Why do we have councils paying Muslims large wages on city councils.. to educate the community about muslims….

I do not see the same benefits provided to other religions… buddists, Hindu’s etc…. so why do we need to be educated all of a sudden about muslims… wake up. There is a bigger plan afoot and you are being manipulated to believe that this is wrong to speak out.

Did you know that muslims are required to kill you ??… They may be peace loving people but when required… they will have to act or be considered an infidel themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acts17Apologetics

You will learn what he is talking about here.

According to them all Muslims are evil.

Nalliah went on TV to say exactly that and to claim that they abducted and possibly murdered a woman whose husband has now been arrested for the murder. The husband has reportedly confessed to the murder.

Only hours earlier, Nalliah and his “flock” were seen on national TV trying to pacify the alleged perpetrator believing his innocence.

I am a Sri Lankan by birth. Nalliah and his church must be cast into an abyss from which they cannot re-emerge.

Australia does not need right wing Christians such as these. They are as bad as all extremists, Islamic, Hindu and Jewish.

This was found in 2008 but not surprising with the events in Israel in the last few years that they would rather this sort of information slip quietly into the night.

King Solomon is in the Genealogy of Christ being that he was the son of King David. The Arch of Titus in Rome clearly depicts in stone, the spoils of the temple that were carried away from Israel when Israel was dispersed among the nations around 70AD. If this was the second temple, there was a first and it was bigger.

Solomon actually had other names… one was Jeddadiah which was given him by the prophet Nathan.

Here is another prophecy for you… Tyre & Sidon… God said that they would not use this city for anything again other than for drying fishing nets and for people to wonder why…

Thats ok to disagree = )

I just don’t have any life changing Ah Haa! moments with Alice… Proverbs … now there is a book.

No I cannot say that Alice’s experience did not happen…. but then if you eat strange things you can have strange experiences !!

I know its off the topic.. but not for me.. I just thought you may know why..

Owendy: Have you noticed that the moon has moved or rotated ?

Briefly(!) — Yes the Moon does rotate, continuously. Yes, its rotational rate is slowing. Yes; it’s moving away from the earth at roughly 4cm per year.

I’ve got a sleep disorder known as N-24, or “sleep dysphasia” which means my circadian rhythm causes me to have a “free-running” sleep cycle.

Owendy, from what I’ve read lately, there seems to be an element of doubt about Solomon. Some modern Christian scholars are doubting that “King” Solomon in fact wrote the scriptures attributed to him, and some of the more skeptical Christian scholars are expressing a degree of doubt that Solomon was even a real person.

Owendy: [...] also Lewis Carroll is just not in the same category as Solomon… remember he was not fictitious but a historical person who lived.

Whomever it was wrote the First Book of Kings—and the Second Book of Chronicles—couldn’t (obviously) foresee the detailed authentication afforded by 21st-century archaeology.

King Solomon’s city in Jerusalem is believed to have been below the hill on what is now the Al-Aqsa mosque. Israeli archaeologists have been continually excavating this site for decades, but not even ONE single piece of evidence for the existence of King Solomon has ever been found. No mention of that name has been found on any artifacts such as hieroglyphs, pot decorations or tax records.

How can it be that the existence of Pharaoh Rameses II, who reigned three centuries prior to Solomon is well recorded, yet King Solomon, who allegedly ruled over a vast empire (according to Kings and Chronicles) left no trace whatsoever.

And those in vassalage to him left not a single record of taxes, accounts or inscriptions. None of the soldiers of his conquering armies left any swords, shields or helmets behind (for potential modern-day archeological discovery).

So…..

I think before we bore the pants off everyone here LOL, we’re going to have to “agree to disagree” Owendy.

And one final—and admittedly fatuous—question for you: Can you “prove” to me unequivocally that the story of “Alice” did not really happen? That it was purely fiction?

After all, the character of “Alice” was based entirely upon one of Carroll’s real-life friends; Alice Pleasance Liddell.

ausGeoff: Did it ever occur to you that—just maybe—the bible is simply a collection of fairy stories or fantastical writings?

No… History continues to affirm the scripture. Sorry ausGeoff I just cannot accept “Alice” literally because the story does not display the actual state of our heart as the Bible does.

The heart of man is deceitful above all things, but even the book of Proverbs teaches me how to react, how to live and who to avoid, where ‘Alice” just does not cut it… : )

As I said before, the pattern within scripture that ties all the books together cannot be ignored, 66 books by at least 40 different authors over thousands of years that are all interlocked, shows me that the scripture is completely inspired by God. I know you don’t believe this, and that’s your choice, but this is why I believe it literally… this is not a mistake at all but a choice… also Lewis Carroll is just not in the same category as Solomon… remember he was not fictitious but a historical person who lived.

Some fulfilled prophecy… sorry… you will have to read the links also.

Two ancient Jewish prophets, Jeremiah and Zephaniah, foretold of a day when Hebrew would once again be spoken by the Jewish people when they return to the land of their forefathers, the land of Israel.

Jeremiah 31:23 states that the Lord would return the language of Hebrew to His people once He gathered them from around the world and brought them back into their land. Zephaniah 3:9 says the Lord would give the Jews a pure language, Hebrew, the language of the Bible and He would give it to the Jews, the people of the Bible, in the land of Israel, the land of the Bible.

Even though there is a debate over the official language of Israel, Hebrew has indeed been revived in the Last Days as Bible prophecy said it would be.

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/276/

This was written is a few years ago when Yassir Arafat was alive, but we have the Palestinians going to the UN on Sept 20 this year. The prophetic detail still stands.

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2004/552/

Do you still have your Bible… or did you throw it away once you decided that it was foolish ? It was not naive to be proud of a gift.

Having one and studying it are quite different… most people have one, somewhere…. gathering dust. The thing is those who pray to be shown if the Bible is inspired, are shown, but as the scripture says the preaching of the Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing.

Have you noticed that the moon has moved or rotated ?

All the prophecies have been fulfilled literally so far so there is absolutely no reason to expect that they will not continue to untill this winds up.

Name 5 propechies that have been fulfilled.

(vague ‘could-be-anything’ prophecies are not allowed).

Owendy: Sorry ausGeoff… I do read the scripture literally.

The mathematically-gifted logician Lewis Carroll won a First Class Honours degree in mathematics, as well as a Second Class Honours degree in the classics at Oxford University, where he later became a mathematics lecturer of more than 25 years standing.

He also wrote Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland. Can I assume you also read that “literally”?

Could you explain why you (apparently) believe everything you read in the bible—as demonstrated here on this blog by yourself—but wouldn’t believe one single word of Alice?

Did it ever occur to you that—just maybe—the bible is simply a collection of fairy stories or fantastical writings? After all Alice was written by a vastly better educated, more articulate and erudite individual than those who wrote the various bits and pieces of the bible.

I’m sorry, but I don’t understand this comment about prophecies coming to fulfillment…

Owendy: All the prophecies have been fulfilled literally so far so there is absolutely no reason to expect that they will not continue to until this winds up.

Could you please elaborate?

And I’m not quite certain as to how you can possibly know this…

Owendy: The thing is, you have not studied the Bible.

I don’t ever recall us having a meeting in person, or are you simply being overly-presumptuous here?

As a matter of interest, until I reached my teenaged years and became an atheist, I was brought up in a strictly Methodist household. I actually received my very own(!) bible at around 11 or 12 years of age (which I must admit that at that naive time in my life I was very proud of, and I can still see the gilt printing on the dark blue cover, and the drop lake marbling on the book’s edges that so impressed me).

Well, this is one thing we do agree on… sunsets…

Owendy: I love sunsets… but I see this as the handiwork of God. Just a different perspective

I see them (from a purely anthropocentric perspective, that is) as simply a dramatic manifestation of a unique combination of atmospheric and cosmic conditions. Whereas you see them as being created(?) by some supernatural entity—a god?

Which sounds the more likely?

— BTW I thank you for elaborating your thoughts on “The Raven” stuff.

ausGeoff: I’m guessing that it’s more likely you have problems with “dimensions” Owendy…

Yes you are guessing… Einstein estimated many. This may interest you… Its nothing to do with the Bible…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory#Number_of_dimensions

ausGeoff: I’m a realistic, from coming from a long-term career in engineering and its inherent mathematical prerequisites.

Chuck Missler has earned a Masters Degree in engineering from UCLA and a Ph.D. from Louisiana Baptist University. Chuck has worked as a systems engineer at TRW, followed by a Senior Analyst position serving both the intelligence community and the Department of Defense… He understands dimensions and with working with the intelligence field has experience with classified events…So this has nothing to do with being realistic… and its ok to say you don’t know something.

ausGeoff: Once again, you’ve fallen into the old trap of interpreting too many biblical passages literally

Sorry ausGeoff… I do read the scripture literally.. All the prophecies have been fulfilled literally so far so there is absolutely no reason to expect that they will not continue to untill this winds up.

Saying that I am using the others because I understand them is unfair because the scripture interprets itself.. each thing like the beasts of Revelation are explained who they represent in other passages.. This is why the scripture tells you to study and show yourself approved.
I am still learning myself but there is too much truth and proof for me to walk away.

The thing is, you have not studied the Bible, only picked at bits and read other scoffers who justify their stand.

For me though I would rather investigate myself than have someone make up my mind for me.. But like I said thats my choice.
I love sunsets… but I see this as the handiwork of God. Just a different perspective.

Have you looked at the moon lately ?… its changed.

Owendy: This is where you have problems… you have difficulty with dimensions.. This verse was an inter dimensional or what you would term spiritual experience.

I’m a realistic, from coming from a long-term career in engineering and its inherent mathematical prerequisites.

To me—as a rationalist—the terms “inter-dimensional” and “spiritual experience” have no meaning. They’re simply terms utilised by people who have a belief in the supernatural as an easy defense against the scientific claims of people such as me.

A spiritual experience usually involves the recognised psychological phenomenon of of “projection” which mistakenly attributes a reality outside oneself (gods?) as one’s inner feelings.

For example, I cannot accept that a glorious, spectacular sunset is the work of an unknowable, unseen god. To the contrary, it would seem that this so-called “spiritual” experience usually involves this recognised psychological projection.

Looking beyond the aesthetics of the sunset, science supplies the obvious answer: the relative alignment of the Earth and the Sun, and the way in which the clouds refract and reflect light waves. One doesn’t need a god to explain sunsets, or anything else for that matter.

Once again, you’ve fallen into the old trap of interpreting too many biblical passages literally—when you choose and it supports your argument—but at the same time, interpreting so many others passages allegorically, or metaphorically.

You can’t have it both ways Owendy. Even I can’t do that with an irrefutable (even by you) treatise such as Isaac Newton’s “Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica”: why should I allow you the luxury of doing this with one of your holy books?

The cypher allocated to ‘The Raven” really is not the same because the Greek numeric is not allocated for this specific purpose, it is part of a numerical language as a constant. Hebrew is a picture graph language like Chinese or Japanese.. so it is like watching a story more than reading a story.

Besides… I think that the New Testament was originally written in both Greek and Aramaic…. not Hebrew…But I could be incorrect here.
The Old Testament Torah was Hebrew… and this is loaded with ELS codes that if you even remove one letter, the whole system falls apart… that is why the scriptures were so painstakingly copied and protected over the centuries… and how the documents found at the Dead sea were pretty much the same as our book of Isaiah now.

The Scripture is layer upon layer…they know the codes are many layers deep and they name people and places usually under a verse that describes an event or a warning.

So I am not so much a Panin fan but I certainly do believe that there is a distinct numeric pattern that interlocks each book, I do however acknowledge that he was so obsessed with what he discovered that he was prepared to spend his life studying just how intricate the design is…

So people who scoff and say that he was mediocre or stupid do not understand his motivation… thats all. What he found was enough for him to humble himself and become a Christian… a free choice.

BTW… New Physics are coming to a concept that the universe is flat….thats science for you.

ausGeoff: Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him ALL the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them.

This is where you have problems… you have difficulty with dimensions.. This verse was an inter dimensional or what you would term spiritual experience. The God we know exists outside of time that we live in… eternity. People mostly think that we Christians think that God has lots of time… but He is outside time.
Daniel 4.11 is referring to a dream / vision given, to weed out the false soothsayers etc so that Daniel would be the only one able to give the interpretation.. not a good choice here.
Jeremiah 16.19 refers to people from all nations coming to Him.. after Israel is returned to the land which happened in 1948… good choice.. a fulfilled prophecy stating how they were scattered among the nations and have been brought back… another fulfilled prophecy was the nation being born in a day.
Revelation 7.1… north, south, east & west… this is a future prophecy.. the wind is going to stop… thats something to look forward to !
The sun is going to scorch people… and hail that will get to the size of around 60lb. You will pay a days wages for 1 loaf of bread… are you aware that there is less than 1 weeks food supply stored ?? I hope you have prepared for the economy to collapse… thats pretty close too.
Sorry but the verses you have chosen just don’t work for you, as they are not in context and you have just selected a word to try to prove a point.. the only one would be Job 38.13 but if you read this also in context it means, from all lands, and that God would shake every nation to expose those who are against him… so I guess thats you !! = )

I will look into the raven for you…

Owendy: “The documented assertion” is widely copied by many only of a quick investigation by a man named Ken who even though has a degree in maths his focus is business mergers. His study was not languages as Panin.

I interpret these comments to mean that you’d prefer to believe in the mathematical “theories” relating to Mark, in particular—and the bible in general—by a languages expert (Panin) who postulated his ideas more than a century ago, rather than the theories of a doctor of mathematics from the University of Queensland (Dr Ken Smith)?

And although a confirmed skeptic and part-time “bible-basher”, Ken has been an active member of the Baptist church for 60 years.

I’m guessing that you appear not to like Ken—or consider his logic—simply because he’s “one of yours” BUT he has the temerity to question the bible. Oh dear!

And unfortunately for you, the bible does strongly imply (if not actually specify) that the Earth is flat…

Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him ALL the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them. [from one place on a sphere?]

Job 38:13
[...] that it might take the earth by THE EDGES and shake the wicked out of it? [only a flat plane can have 'edges']

Daniel 4:11
The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH. [a sphere has 'ends'?]

Jeremiah 16:19
O Lord, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. ['ends' again!]

Job 38:13
That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? [more 'ends' LOL]

Revelation 7:1
And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. [and now the spherical earth has 'corners'?]

You’d have to agree that the words ‘edges’, ‘ends’, ‘corners’ more aptly describe a flat—rather than a spherical—object. Wouldn’t you?

And I’ll try again…
I’d also appreciate your opinions on the comparison with “The Raven”, and the way it can be demonstrated how easy it is to manipulate imaginary number patterns from virtually all written texts.

ausGeoff: You’re obviously a Panin “groupie”

No ausGeoff not at all, because I have looked also at the ELS codes under the text. Panin’s work is just another who understands the mathematical keys. “The documented assertion” is widely copied by many only of a quick investigation by a man named Ken who even though has a degree in maths his focus is business mergers. His study was not languages as Panin.

I also certainly am not seeking to impress you.. why waste my time unless you were really interested in learning more. I am always interested to learn but I don’t swallow what I am told without investigation.

And it was you that told me earlier that the bible said the world was flat… which was only your lack of investigation and repeating someone elses ignorance about the Bible.

Would you like another subject to discuss or are you done ?

Owendy: Yes he used the Westcott & Hort because it was Greek which holds a gematra value for each letter.. and BTW 175 is correct.

You’re obviously a Panin “groupie” and a denialist of the recorded facts! What next pray tell? Oranges are a species of apple—according to your Russian hero? Who, incidentally, graduated form Harvard with a Bachelor of Arts degree, and who never studied mathematics formally (which is why I defined him as “mediocre”).

And how is it that simply because “he spent over 50 years of his life studying…” his results and conclusions were correct? Just because someone (unfortunately) spends a long time studying something doesn’t in and of itself make the conclusions of those studies irrefutably correct. That’s plain silly!

Learned scholars assiduously studied the macrocosm for centuries, but still firmly believed—and allegedly had the “facts” to prove it—that the Earth was flat.

I’d also appreciate your opinions on my comparison with Poe’s “The Raven”, and the way I’ve demonstrated how easy it is to manipulate and formulate imaginary number patterns from virtually any written text.

I also should let you know that I’m in no way impressed (as are all skeptics) by “large number” theories, or “correlation and causation”—as you obviously are.

This guy sounds like he wasted his life if he spent over 50 years combining maths and the bible. And for what…? What does any of it prove or suggest?

A whole bunch of numbers certainly doesn’t pursuade me that god had anything to do with the bible.

The results of his lifelong study was “over 43,000 detailed, hand-penned pages of analysis” generated before his death in October 1942 in his 87th year. … and you have decided that you can align your amazing = p work here, with a mathematician… (whom you call mediocre).. why would you be here writing to me to prove what ??

… you should be a University professor ! not lowering yourself here.

Yes he used the Westcott & Hort because it was greek which holds a gematra value for each letter.. and BTW 175 is correct.

soapy… you have just given clear insight to your life perspective and limits… Hmmm