...."Would a burqa ban stop burqa crime?
C
urrently one of the biggest pushes for banning the burqa revolves around the argument that those that wear a burqa cannot be spot identified.
If you’re walking down the street in one nobody has any idea who you are. Even if the police stop you and they’re unlucky enough to be male they have to wait for a female officer to rock up to carry out any identity checks.
On the religious front this is innocent enough. However when people use the burqa for criminal activity, such action highlights the fact that if you cannot be spot identified there’s a good chance you’ll get away with it.
Would banning the burqa however actually stop people committing crimes whilst wearing one?
The main fear about not being able to publicly spot identify someone is that in the event of a crime, witnesses and CCTV aren’t able to reveal much.
Case in point the ‘burqa bandit’ photo I used above. This man (or woman) robbed a North Carolina bank in the US at gunpoint. If you witnessed the robbery what would you tell police?
The burqa bandit was never apprehended and the police still don’t even know if it was a male or female under the veil.
More recently in Miranda, Sydney, two men stalked a third man who’d just withdrawn a large amount of cash from an ATM.
Police say the 35-year-old was delivering cash to jewellery retailers at a shopping centre in Miranda at about 5:00pm when two men started following him.
He became suspicious and drove off after they told him his tyre was going flat.
I’m assuming the victim knew it was a man because the robber spoke. Otherwise there’d be no way of telling.
Naturally the police are looking for the two men who first approached the victim. Until they’ve been questioned there’s no way of knowing if the two encounters with the victim are related, despite the strong gut feeling they obviously were.
Like the North Carolina burqa bandit case, don’t expect any CCTV footage of the Sydney robbery or any police portraits of the robber. If you’ve seen one black burqa you’ve seen them all, there’s no unique identifiable characteristics… which is kind of the point.
Now the irrational part of me would love to cry out about how this Sydney burqa robbery is proof that we in Australia need to get on the burqa ban bandwagon.
Surely if we banned the public wearing of one that’d solve any and all future potential crime problems we might have involving the wearing of a burqa right?
How well has this worked for other instruments that have been banned due to their use in crime? Guns are quite strictly regulated but we still read about people being shot every second day. Carrying around knives and machetes is also illegal but that doesn’t stop people getting stabbed either.
Would banning the burqa to stop potential burqa crime have any real effect?
Think about it. You’re a criminal and at most you know you’re going to spend less then ten minutes out in the open wearing a burqa whilst you commit your crime. Do you really think a burqa ban is going to stop you?
Typically whatever crime you’re about to carry out, whether it be robbery, assault, rape or whatever whilst wearing a burqa is going to be more serious then then the illegal act of wearing the burqa itself.
Criminal activity, such as the Miranda burqa robbery, only strengthen people’s fears of the unknown under the burqa. If crime featuring the burqa rises it won’t take long for a widespread paranoid culture against burqa wearers to develop. This then leads to a massive public push to ban the burqa but for the totally wrong reasons.
I fear two or three burqa crimes is all it would take to get some serious debate and discussion in Australia over banning the burqa outright. Whilst I support a burqa ban (but struggle with the personal freedom conundrum) I only do so for what I believe to be neutral and practical reasons.
Preventing crime isn’t one of them. The last thing we need is fear and prejudice on our streets because people are overly paranoid that every burqa person is a potential walking crime scene waiting to happen.
As a country we’re better then that.
May 6th, 2010 at 1:55 pm et(Quote)
It is a touchy subject, but remember a person wearing a motorcyle helmet that covers their face isn’t allowed to enter a bank or post office. So why should someone with their face covered by a burqa be allowed to enter the same premises?
This is what society has stooped to. I am sorry but what’s good for one has to apply to the other.
May 6th, 2010 at 2:05 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Given that the motorcycle helmets/balaclavas are already forbidden in banks yeah, there’s a bit of a double standard there.
I was talking more about an outright ban. As in I don’t want to see burqas anywhere. This I support for non-religious/crime prevention reasons. I feel if enough crimes involving burqas start happening though that there’ll be a push to ban burqas on a campaign of fear and paranoia alone.
This I feel isn’t right.
May 7th, 2010 at 10:55 am Andrea(Quote)
Note today’s opinion poll on nine msn: http://ninemsn.com.au/
May 7th, 2010 at 6:52 pm don't we have a constitution?(Quote)
It is not a double standard, the motorcycle helmet comparison is not comparable. Laws in Australia should be made upon our constitution not the ignorance or misunderstandings of society.
The Constitution clearly protects not only an individuals freedom of expression but their right to their religion.
Section 116: “The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.” – shall not make any law imposing any religious observance or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion.
Banning the burqa would undermine the principles of this country and it is disgusting to think about how many doors such an act would open.
If someone wants to disguise themselves to commit a crime, they are going to find a way. It is not possible to ban all possible forms of this and it is outrageous to contemplate it even. If society wants to stop such things from happening then look into the society itself and see where these acts are coming from. Unless Every single method of concealment is going to be banned by law – sunglasses, hoodies, baseballcaps, etc, there is no grounds to ban the burqa. The people who misuse these items are going to misuse them regardless of the law.
Balaclavas are forbidden and yet people still steal and commit crimes wearing them. The fact is that the men who wore the burqa to commit their crimes did the same thing. They used something to their advantage and it is appallingt to me that they degraded something so important to some people.
The issue is though, the balaclava does not represent the religious beliefs of thousands of Australians, it is not the same situation, you can’t compare the two and honestly believe the extrapolation stands up.
May 7th, 2010 at 10:45 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
@don’t we have a constitution?
Well good thing the burqa itself has nothing to do with relgion then hey? The Quran mentions nothing about it and it’s use is entirely propagated by paranoid males who think everyone in the world is out to rape their spouse.
I mostly agree with the crime angle for banning the burqa not being very effective, that’s what this entire post was about.
This is most certainly not the issue. The burqa is not required by any religion. It’s existence is a result of a mysogynistic interpretation of the Quran. The Quran calls on muslims to dress modestly; some males have interpreted this as covering females from head to toe and letting men wear whatever they want.
May 8th, 2010 at 12:52 am Kristen(Quote)
After reading countless blog posts all over different sites, Im rather fearful about the society i find myself in.
Last time i checked, People residing in Australia had constitutional freedom.
There is no way that there would be such a debate over this if it did not surround the muslim community. Quite frankly, after seeing the state of Adelaide’s youth in Hinely st last week, I think too many clothes is quite the opposite of what we should be concerned with. I find the half naked display by intoxicated youth much more offensive and, dare say, distgusting than any burqa, hijab or niqab Ive ever seen.
And to suggest that every muslim woman dresses in such away purely due to the oppression from the men in their society or because they have been brain washed by their culture is horrifically insulting, and places them in the same inferior position by treating them as invalids, unable to think and act for themselves.
Banning the burqa is a ridiculous suggestion that at first I disregarded, assuming our world leaders would never let pass. It saddens me to see how far this propostion has come, and I do not understand how people can firstly, want to take away simple rights of another human being, and secondly, be so blind to not be able to see that the connotations surrounding the ethnicity of those people are the driving force of this issue.
where is the tolerance?
If we are going to outlaw Burqa’s, firstly we need to outlaw srtip clubs, and start fining those young woman you think its ok to expose everything but their internal organs during a stroll down hinely st.
Or is that contradictory to Western views? Its ok for a woman to sell her body, as long as she blends in with the crowds?
May 10th, 2010 at 8:03 pm et(Quote)
Personally? I would rather see the Judicial System changed in this country to stop the imbicile judges letting crims go with little or no punishment. Ban the Burqa? Ban the bloody judges!!!!!
August 5th, 2010 at 6:31 pm Bike Rider!(Quote)
Re: Kristen.
What you said is completely ridiculous! I’m sure if police saw someone walking around with a balaclava or motorbike helmet on, they would be stopped and questioned.
This is not about Muslims. This is about safety.
Pretty much, If Muslims can wear a burqa, I should be allowed to walk around with a full face balaclava on without being harassed.
August 5th, 2010 at 9:12 pm Caffeinated SentryGnome(Quote)
im not so sure we do, if you read this which came from a govenment website:
“The Australian Constitution does not have any express provision relating to freedom of speech. In theory, therefore, the Commonwealth Parliament may restrict or censor speech through censorship legislation or other laws, as long as they are otherwise within constitutional power.”
and
“There is no list of personal rights or freedoms which may be enforced in the courts. There are however some provisions relating to personal rights such as the right to trial by jury (section 80), and the right to freedom of religion (section 116).”
i suspect freedom of religion means: yes you can believe i what ever you want. but doesn’t mean you can practice it.
September 13th, 2010 at 11:02 pm Student(Quote)
@ Kristen
Why ban strip clubs? I simply can’t find any relevance between women exposing their body and burqas. I agree it is disrespectful to their religion/culture but there are many cases where people are robbed, stabbed etc etc by people in burqas.
I believe it is neccessary to ban burqas in Australia. Constitution clearly protects the freedom of their religious ‘believes’ but that does not mean that by using religion as an excuse, people can commit crimes in its name. Motor bike’s helmets and any other sort of clothing/equipments that restricts others around you to identify you in banks are banned but, why should burqas be an exception?
The main point is, it is the security risks and personal safety of ourselves that we are worried about in this country that we all want to protect.
Yes this is for my debate assignment
, give me more points I can argue about.
September 14th, 2010 at 2:44 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
@student
That it may, but the burqa isn’t a religious belief. The Quran mentions something about being modest and a bunch of guys have interpreted that as women covering themselves from head to foot.
Nowhere in Islamic teaching nor the Quran does it mandate the burqa or niqab as a religious requirement of practicing Islam.
…remember the days before the internet when kids used to do their own homework?
Nah, me either.
October 26th, 2010 at 9:12 am John Nebieser(Quote)
I don’t under stand how you people could say the ban is bad. In the Quran it does not say you must where a burqa. The only reason muslim women are required to wear the burqa is because the Taliban.
I understand freedom of religon but wearing the burqa is just like wearing a mask. You never know who is under the burqa.
May 26th, 2011 at 7:28 am maccanaut(Quote)
If a bankrobber enters or leaves a bank wearing any sort of mask, people will know he’s a robber, and the chances of reporting any distinguishing details is greater as a result. People will look for the details.
A bankrobber entering or leaving a bank with a helmet on will attract attention while in or close to the bank, and would attract peoples attention and alert bank staff to the fact a robbery was about to occur.
A bankrobber wearing a burqa can stroll casually into the bank and simply wait patiently in line, rob the teller and once clear of the bank can stroll home again, especially in neighborhoods where burqas are more commonly worn.
October 29th, 2011 at 5:51 pm Actually...(Quote)
I would just like to point out that even though the Koran does not mandate the wearing of a Burqa, interpretations of the Muslim faith also include a consideration of Hadiths and the Prophet Mohammad told his wives that they should completely cover themselves as neither was more important than the other.By covering up they would be judged not by their appearance but by their personality, intelligence and values.
So the argument that there is no religious foundation for the Burka is invalid. Of course, while this is only an interpretation that supports the wearing of the Burka, every way of practising a religion is based on a subjective interpretation anyway.
I’d just like to say that I’m a Year 11 student and have been studying the “Burka” issue for English and found this article very helpful in terms of an evaluation from a security perspective. Furthermore, if it makes a difference I’m an Atheist from a Catholic family so I’m not just defending the Burka from a religious or cultural obligation.
October 31st, 2011 at 10:36 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
@Actually…
That’s just it though, they’re interpretations.
Why make such a big deal about how the Quran is holy and unchangeable (some say even untranslatable), if you’re just going to come up with your own interpretations of it.
From what I gather, following the Quran to the word (Arabic word that is) ranks quite high up there in terms of how much of a serious Muslim you are.
Unless of course they are judged for covering up, which is mostly universally the case outside of Muslim kingdoms.
An interpretation is not a religious background, especially when we’re talking about a religion that places so much emphasis on the literary basis the Quran is studied and followed.
October 31st, 2011 at 5:38 pm Sarah(Quote)
@ozsoapbox (thanks for the reply)
When I wrote that the women would not be judged by their appearance by covering up I meant specifically Mohammad’s wives; not women that wear the Burqa or Niqab nowadays in western countries. I was just giving the reasoning behind why Mohammad told his wives to cover up.
Of course these women are judged in the 21st century, but in the context of the point I was trying to make, the fact that they are judged nowadays is actually irrelevant.
Also, the point I was trying to make was that while it is correct that the Koran does not mention anything to do with the Burqa or Niqab at all:
The Muslim faith encompasses the Koran and INCLUDES the Hadiths. In a Hadith, Mohammad’s wives wear a Burqa as instructed by Mohammad. So when women wear a Burqa, they are not interpreting the Koran they are following the example set by Mohammad’s wives. Which we have to accept(begrudgingly or otherwise)is justification of their choice to wear it.
When I say “interpretations of the Muslim faith” I am referring to some of the other ways of practising Islam. Just like Christianity, in which there are moderates that support gay marriage and pre-marital sex and more devout believers that go to Church every Sunday and actually believe that Mary was a virgin; there are moderate Muslims (that make up a majority) and more stricter Muslims that can and DO take it to extremes, such as Salafism.
Like the Bible and other religious texts it goes without saying that the Koran is unchangeable so therefore every religion would harp on about how “holy and unchangeable” their texts are? I don’t see your point?
I don’t personally agree with the Burqa and Niqab but, we can’t overlook that they do have a place in Islam. We shouldn’t equate it with Islam, or it’s values perhaps, but it does have a legitimate basis within Islamic practice. Each side has a religious basis for their argument.
When arguing against the Burqa, it is logical to point out that because it is not in the Koran it is not a religious matter and completely ignore the fact that it is in the Hadith. When arguing FOR the burqa it is convenient to point out that Mohammad’s wives wore the Burqa without acknowledging that it was ONLY Mohammad’s wives that wore the Burqa.
They were told by Mohammad that they were “special” and had to wear the Burqa, other women were not expected to. This doesn’t necessarily negate any justification for the Burqa, but it is something that can be considered.
Sorry for writing an essay, I just thought that your response was a bit besides the point (Sorry :S)
For the record, I don’t believe that the Burqa or Niqab has a place within any equal and free society, but that doesn’t excuse poor reasoning for banning them regardless.
October 31st, 2011 at 9:33 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
The trouble with this though is that Muhammed’s wives didn’t set an example, they were simply told what to do and complied. It was never intended for all women to wear burqas or they would have.
As you acknowledge, those that choose to wear them now do so out of choice, it’s got nothing to do with religious requirements because there are none.
I refuse to respect this choice as I don’t believe personal choice comes before security and society doesn’t either, try wearing a motorcycle helmet into a bank.
I don’t mean unchangeable in the sense of actually changing it, Islam in particular goes one step further and the belief is commonly held that even a translation is an abomination of the text and not to be followed, studied or held accurate.
In comparison, how many translations of the bible exist and are held to be just as accurate as the original?
Don’t be silly, I welcome the discussion.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:02 pm Sarah(Quote)
@ozsoapbox
I do see your point now, and agree that for identification purposes the Burqa and Niqab should have to be removed however, I don’t know if an outright ban is the best way to approach the issue of completely eliminating the wearing of the Burqa.
A ban would surely only further marginalise and vilify those who choose to wear the burqa. I don’t think that a ‘quick-fix’ ban is the answer as has been done overseas.
In countries such as Belgium and France, they have failed dismally at properly integrating the Muslim community and as such have seen more turning towards radical/extreme ways of expressing their faith as a way of developing an identity and sense of belonging as they have largely been ostracised by the wider community.
Australia should be looking at the long-term effects. Introducing a ban would only make the Muslim community feel unwanted and could result in home-grown terrorism. Already they feel unjustly portrayed in the media and a ban would only alienate them and force them to retreat even more into their own communities.
A more effective option (maybe), would be to actively introduce community projects which aim to assimilate them into the community, addressing the CAUSE of the problem rather than the EFFECT.
While this may be an ongoing effort, and of course not every single person will respond by removing the burqa, it would (hopefully) prevent future generations of Australian or immigrant Muslims from preserving the wearing of the Burqa and Niqab by way of clinging to their faith.
Maybe it will even stop future ‘Carnita Matthews’-type people with an inherent victim-like attitude.
I think at times it’s very easy to forget that behind the face-veil is an actual person, even if the garment dehumanises them; a living, breathing, thinking person nonetheless.
The issue is sensitive and complex as there is more than one reason that women choose to wear the burqa or niqab, therefore any response that seeks to outlaw the wearing of it needs to reflect this, through a sensitive and varied approach.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:08 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
‘Community projects’ is a big vague, and I’d imagine as for kids, those wearing a burqa are probably going to indoctrinate their kids with religious dogma anyway. Those kids don’t have a chance, and neither do theirs (this goes for all religious fanatics).
I don’t know if it’s so much as forgetting rather than ignoring.
If someone lacks the decency to approach me and communicate on a human level (including all the non-verbal signals we use for communication), I’m going to treat them as an inanimate object.
And that’s got nothing to do with religion either. I ignore people dressed up as characters tyring to sell things, people in sunglasses indoors, someone trying to talk to me with a face hiding helmet on etc. Anyone wearing a costume of any kind really where I can’t clearly see their face, burqa or otherwise.