Muslim bank loans in Australia: Halal or haram?
Apparently there’s a huge untapped market where muslims in Australia aren’t taking out traditional loans because charging interest conflicts with sharia law. Despite traditional loan methods involving interest muslims are obviously still taking out loans to buy housing and cars, you only need to look at the western suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne to confirm this.
Presumably muslims are getting finance from independent third party operators in what must be a pretty controlled niche industry. Think about it, you offer loans to muslims who can’t go anywhere else but still need to finance essentials like a car or house. You don’t need to be muslim yourself to offer the loans, you just need to make sure the loan is halal by complying with the no-interest rule.
Where else are they going to go?
It has already been noted that the Islamic finance industry is booming in Asia and Latrobe University already offer an Islamic Banking and Finance degree, pre-empting Islamic finance as a future growth industry in Australia.
If we as a country want to exploit tap into this ludicrous market (religious people tend to have limited options when it comes loans), then logically the first step would be to test home grown products on Australian muslims.
Enter the National Bank of Australia.
This morning the National Bank of Australia (NAB) has announced plans to bring muslim-friendly loans into into mainstream finance by offering national muslim-friendly loans. From discrimination to public perception to actually turning over a profit there’s a seemingly large minefield in a national company announcing such an initiative.
On the surface though, the NAB seem to be doing it right.
The whole premise behind a muslim-friendly loan is that no interest is allowed to be charged on repayments. To get around this the bank simply purchase what it is you were after and then sell it back to you with a profit margin.
ie. I want a $1000 bicycle and go approach the bank. After some prayers and the sacrifice of a kitten the bank approves my loan and goes out and buys the bicycle for me. They then sell it back to me at say $1200. I still make repayments but the loan counts as being muslim approved because I’m not paying interest on the loan itself.
In the case of home loans, companies seem to get around the interest rates by charging ‘rent’ with the renter eventually acquiring a 100% financial stake in the property.
I know, talk about your religious technicalities.
As the Daily Telegraph points out, these type of loans have “the advantage of making the loan immune from future interest rate rises.” What isn’t disclosed though is the percentage increase on the cost of the item.
What could really make these loans appealing is if the increase in the selling price the banks put on the item they are reselling back to you is less then the variable interest rate on loans, or might be less in the near future.
For example say a bank offers you a $1000 loan at 5% variable interest and the interest rate has jumped twice in the last 6 months, if the muslim loan profit increase was at 5% or even less you could easily come out on top and as a bonus protect yourself from unstable interest rate rises.
Currently we’re starting to see this already happen in our financial sector with the Commonwealth bank deciding to “selfishly” start bumping up interest rates because you know, the recession is over. The bank were so slow to drop the rates but even at the slightest whiff of bounce back up they go.
In these cases a muslim style loan makes sense for the consumer, again providing the profit margin percentage is appealing. Given no facts and figures have been released other then the first round of loans will be $1000 or so capped to fifteen million of initial investment in the scheme I’m assuming the NAB is poised to take advantage and screw consumers.
If the model is sustainable on a small scale trial I guess it won’t be long before we see national fully fledged Australian bank backed muslim friendly mortgages.
Realistically all the NAB has to do is charge slightly less then the private operators who offer muslim loans do and they’ll be guaranteed a market share of the muslim loan industry. Given that anything more financially attractive then the standard ‘we charge you interest’ model would make the bulk of their currently loan models redundant (why pay more when you don’t have to?), there is no incentive to make muslim loans more appealing.
What is most likely going to happen is that these loans are heavily marketed to predominantly muslim areas but are offered to all members of the community. Naturally if you’re not bound by silly religious laws you’re not going to sign up to a loan that will cost you more then a normal interest loan, so that leaves only the ‘we have no other choice’ muslims left to be screwed over.
This way the banks appear to be offering non-discriminatory loans, are able to legally screw over a certain demographic who have no other choice due to silly religious laws and the ludicrous Sharia Advisory Board is kept afloat providing clerics to bless wads of loan money (or hard drives given finance is mostly all electronic these days).
Sounds like it’s win-win all round, well… except for muslim wallets.





June 21st, 2009 at 2:56 pm Mohamad.D(Quote)
Hi,
It’s not hard to see by reading your article that you have no respect for the muslim people or their beliefs and in the end of the day you have no respect for yourself. Before you judge let me explain.
The whole point of not paying interest is to keep things fair and honest. Leaving your livelihood in the hands of the Reserve ‘Bank’ and the rest of their cohorts is a silly move when scrutinised.
The Reserve ‘Bank’ is a privately owned institution which moves to the beat of its own drum. Whenever they feel the need to raise or lower interest rates to suit their needs they do so regardless of the consumers needs. The amount ultimately paid isn’t what’s important to some people, but more the knowledge of how much they have to pay.
Personally i would rather hold my future in my own hands rather than the hands of the chairmen of the Reserve ‘Bank’. If you would rather let the rich and powerful control your life and steal your money that’s fine, us backwards cat sacrificing muslims ain’t gonna judge ya. Just know that without muslims and their beliefs there would be less understanding of the banking system amongst people, more of a monopoly over us and a few less options for EVERYBODY.
But i guess a person of your knowledge probably knows all of this already…
June 21st, 2009 at 3:11 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
It doesn’t take a scientist to workout I have zero respect or tolerance towards the Islamic religion, I admit so freely with my self respect intact.
As for your points on the Reserve bank, well this is true if you take out a variable interest rate loan. You do know that fixed interest rate loans are available right?
Obviously only fixed for a certain term and then renegotiated but you still know beforehand what you’re coughing up before you sign on the dotted line. A halal muslim ‘no interest’ loan is just a normal fixed term interest loan with no term.
You guys can call it what you want to appease your imaginary pie in the sky but it’s the same thing.
June 21st, 2009 at 5:26 pm Cuteface(Quote)
Oz -
You can have ur opinion and belief etc, but things like ‘It doesn’t take a scientist to workout I have zero respect or tolerance towards the Islamic religion, I admit so freely with my self respect intact’ on your blog is unnecessary.
You can choose not to respect anyone / anything as this is a free country, but don’t be rude!!!
Im sure you’d be upset when someone shows no respect of you or your loved ones… (or perhaps not, then I pity you!) It’s inappropriate to say such things in public!
June 21st, 2009 at 5:40 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Rude to who? The religion? I really don’t give a damn if Islam is offended that I think it’s a giant chauvanistic crock.
If someone wants to criticise my non-existant religion then by all means do so, I don’t really care. Criticising people is very different and naturally I’d take offense if someone personally insulted me or my loved ones. Probably not so much myself as I have to have a thick skin if I’m throwing my opinion out there.
Just because I might think holdens are shit doesn’t mean I think all the people who own are personally shit.
If you can’t give your own opinions on your own blog… well what is the world coming to?
June 21st, 2009 at 5:51 pm Cuteface(Quote)
Im not saying you cant but im saying don’t be rude… not rude to the religion but to the people who believe the religion……
Anyway… not here to argue but to express my opinion…
November 15th, 2009 at 12:20 pm J(Quote)
Well it is quite obvious by your article the overwelming ‘repect’ (lack there of) you have for Muslims and their beliefs….by your remarks it is quite clear the lack of knowledge about Halal banking.
The point of Halal finance, done in accordance to Sharia, is to keep it just and fair. The commercial banks that use interest payements have riped you and countless others off for centuries….! in 25 year loan you would have paid for your home 3-4 times over. Correctly implemented halal home loans you only would have paid a small percentage on top of of house sale price by the end of the 25 yrs.
So who has the ‘silly’ religious law?
As for NAB… those who are educated in Islamic Halal finance which is quite simple to understand will be able to smell a rat. If NAB are taking advantage of anyone it may possibly be those who have no undersatnding of the Halal financing.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:34 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
You do. Whether you pay interest or buy back your home at an increased sale price from the bank the bottom line for them is still more money. I imagine on a home loan we’re not talking ‘interest’ of just a few thousand dollars either otherwise there’d be nothing in it for the halal lenders.
Without interest there’s nothing stopping people from borrowing and then failing to live within their means, just look at the sub prime mortgage mess the US is/was in.
If halal loans start massively undercutting regular interest loans (as in the buyback amount is vastly less then the interest paid on a standard homeloan) then everyone is going to jump on the bandwagon and we’re back to square one.
My problem isn’t so much the fact that it’s a muslim loan, respect for the religion aside, but rather that halal loans are the same thing as a fixed rate interest loans. Extra money is extra money to the banks who ‘riped’ us off.
January 13th, 2010 at 3:50 pm Jo(Quote)
Wow. You’re lack of respect for the muslim community is disguisting. You’re lack of respect for religion whatsoever is disguisting. But foremost, I didn’t come on this site to read a pathetic attempt at an attack on the religion of our fellow Australians by some ill educated moron. Halal home loans make sense to me much more than the traditional home loans, regardless of the fact that I’m not of muslim faith.
I suggest you start educating yourself on halal home loans under compliance with islamic faith before you embarrass yourself with such a incorrect, outdated and pathetic article on your blog.
Peace.
January 13th, 2010 at 4:05 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
I’ve got a better idea, how about you explain how a halal home loan is any different then a regular home loan? The interest still exists either way it’s just locked in at a fixed rate and lump summed.
Let’s face it as far as compliance goes it’s merely a technicality so that muslims can apply for loans and buy houses on crdit like everyone else.
As for religious respect, I’m certainly not going to apologise for my criticism of them. Respect is earnt, not a right.
January 13th, 2010 at 5:53 pm Jo(Quote)
Yep I agree with that. I meant a traditional home loan as in one that’s interest rates are determined by the reserve bank. I’d rather have the bank buy the house for me then sell it back at a price agreed on by both parties.
I agree it is merely a technicality so that muslims can apply for loans but what’s so bad about that?
Oh and your comment on sacraficing kittens is, dispite your own belief, not humourous. It just shows your lack of knowledge and respect for a religion.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:44 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
If you’re smart and in the market you’ll buy on an interest rate downtrend. You’re only hurting yourself by locking into a high interest rate.
No bank is ever going to offer a fixed term low interest rate for a home loan, the halal factored in rates will always be higher then the market rate.
Banks are businesses and all a halal loan does is bring the exploitation of people’s religious beliefs to mainstream business.
March 16th, 2010 at 6:47 pm May(Quote)
Ignoring your humourless insults towards Islam and its followers, what you’re basically saying is that Islamic finance is just another way of implementing fixed rate loans, right?
You yourself, however, said that the difference is that the “profit rate” is charged on the property itself, and not on the money borrowed. So this could take form of charging rent and so forth until the property is paid in full and acquired. After all, Islamically, charging interest on the dollar is, quite simply, forbidden.
Whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant. So what is it exactly that bugs you? You haven’t really explained how this will exploit the muslim borrower (or lowly commoner as you would probably have it). A loan would presumably only be undertaken if there is fairness to both parties and I imagine if the borrower is not happy with the terms, he/she will sign up to it.
I’m off to slaughter a cat now, I’ll save you a piece.
March 17th, 2010 at 12:58 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
My point is that it’s the same thing. Somebody paid calculated interest and the
Religious loopholes aside I can’t imagine everyone running around with home loans that aren’t pegged to the economy as being good for global economies. At the end of the day Mr and Mrs Halal pay the same interest in the same fashion as everyone else, it’s just called something different.
Sure it might be slightly more or less depending on variable interest rates but in principle it’s the same. You borrow money and paid back more then you borrowed.
My ultimate hangup is that it’s purely a religious offering. Independant loaners can cater to niche markets but I’d rather our big 4 didn’t start pandering exclusive financial services to minority groups on the basis of religion.
March 19th, 2010 at 8:10 pm Wombo(Quote)
Good article.
April 17th, 2010 at 1:01 am RA(Quote)
Halal loan is not same as the fixed rate loan since fixed rate loan will grow with loan periods/ total years..but halal loan is the fixed with whatever no of years you repay, it will not penalise you for not repaying 1/2 months…it is to help people who are lending.
April 18th, 2010 at 5:41 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Uh so if I miss a repayment there’s no penalty? What’s the incentive stopping people from just not paying back halal loans in a timely manner then?
A fixed rate loan will have an interest increase if you miss a repayment, surely there is a halal loan equivalent financial penalty?
May 6th, 2010 at 9:17 am Dawn(Quote)
What you don’t seem to know is that interest to be paid on loans is also against the Christian faith, known Biblically as “The Laws of Usery”.
FYI
I personally would prefer to negotiate a markup with a bank for the house loan rather than be subjected to rate changes.
So I will be trying to seek out a non-interest type loan somewhere is Australia.
Dawn
July 9th, 2010 at 6:28 am ryte(Quote)
Why are we arguing with this jackass again? :s
He seems like one of those ignorant dumb asses who know what they;re on about, but their red neck behavior takes the best of them. May I suggest Mr. ozsoapbox that you start talking about religion with some respect? That is if you were raised that way ofcourse
thanks
July 9th, 2010 at 3:53 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Thankfully my parents didn’t religiously indoctrinate me so I’m able to think on my own without any religious interference.
Respect is earnt and Islam in Australia continues to try and force itself upon me. As of yet I see no reason to give the religion (not it’s followers) any ounce of respect.
July 9th, 2010 at 5:38 pm Steve(Quote)
I have no problem with banks offering this. There’s no such thing as a nice bank, so you can guarantee that they’re going to be just as well off with islamic loans as they would be with traditional loans.
This doesn’t mean that the islamic loans aren’t stupid, though.
So, you find a house you like. It’s $500,000. You approach the bank. They do their checks and come back and say “Yes, we’ll buy it, and you can buy it back from us at $1,300,000, paying $5500 a month”.
So far, in essence, there’s no real difference between this and a fixed rate interest loan, but what happens when 4 months in, you hit the jackpot and inherit $5,000,000. With most regular loans, you can pay them off ahead of time and save on interest. What happens with the islamic loans? Presumably you still have to pay the full $1,300,000. To lessen this amount for paying it off quicker would appear to acknowledge some concept of interest, and we couldn’t have that.
And if there are provisions in place so you can pay it off quicker and save money, then one must beg the question: WHAT’S THE FUCKING POINT?
You just end up tying yourself in knots to appease some non-existent sky-daddy. It’s ridiculous. This is why people don’t respect religion. Not because they’re mean, but because it’s stupid, childish nonsense.
July 29th, 2010 at 6:36 pm Sumon(Quote)
Peace.
One factor need to be consider is, Islamic finance is not only for consumers but also for investors. If you choose your money will not be invested to weapon industry, or alcohol industry or brothel, it will certainly make some difference in the community as a whole.
I think we need to see the bigger picture.
July 30th, 2010 at 2:46 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
How do Islamic banks or lenders guarantee this?
Nothing short of handling the money from start point to end investor point (not the right terms but you know what I mean) is going to guarantee it. In an age of investing in a company and then that company using the money to invest in something else, wash, rinse and repeat 10 times, it seems like a bit of a monumental task.
July 30th, 2010 at 3:26 pm Sumon(Quote)
Well, you are correct “it is a bit of a monumental task.”. That is one of the big reason people come towards Islamic banking or you can say “Ethical banking”. Because the borrowers can be ensured that their money is going to be invested on some beneficial sector of the community.
That is one of the big philosophy behind. Not to driven by capitalist idea rather drive the finance industry more ethical and beneficial way. Not much investing on entertainment industry rather invest more on health, transportation, house, etc. sectors.
July 30th, 2010 at 3:41 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
I don’t recall running into anyone promoting ethical investment when I was researching this article but if true then yes I’ll concede it’s a positive aspect of Islamic finance.
I’m still curious though as to how Islamic financers/financial institutions guarantee it short of wholly owning the properties/companies they are investing in though.
August 19th, 2010 at 3:43 am Well Wisher(Quote)
Ozsoapbox,
Let me give you the answer to your repetitive rant about , Islam earning your respect.
You are a nobody , and are insignificant in every-sense of the word, you will die one day and you will be surprised at the three questions waiting for you.
Islam doesn’t need to earn your respect , On the contrary , there was nothing good in you for Islam to choose you. Be careful with your ignorant attitude , a day will come when you will shed tears of blood , and will bite your hands in regret, don’t say no one told you so , if you keep at this.
Regards,
A Well Wisher
August 19th, 2010 at 3:49 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
No I won’t. When I’m dead I’ll be dead, no imaginary pie in the sky will be asking me any questions thankyou very much.
Take your holier then thou chosen people attitude and shove it.
August 19th, 2010 at 1:34 pm Erica(Quote)
wow Oz, that’s… um… not very nice and respectful at all! I usually enjoy your writing but this comment really put me off a bit. I respect your non-religious belief but I hope you also respect others choices of religion. Of course, that’s only my own personal opinion, just a little advice as one of your fans / readers
August 20th, 2010 at 3:21 am ozsoapbox(Quote)
Well coming home and reading about how
should be enough to put anyone in a bad mood. I respect people’s rights to believe in whatever fairy tales they might wish to, but start to get preachy and the gloves come off.
I only ever share my opinon on religions here, I’m not trying to convert anyone to anything or professing my beliefs are better then anyone elses.
August 20th, 2010 at 3:53 pm Erica(Quote)
Well, I guess some of the tones of language you used in your articles (i.e. whatever fairy tales they might wish to) might also offend some people, thats how they fight back with… even more unpleasant words.
I only ever share my opinon on religions here, I’m not trying to convert anyone to anything or professing my beliefs are better then anyone elses.
Thats a healthy attitude! Maybe, be careful with some wordings if you’d like. Of course, this is coming from a non-Muslim, non-Christian person who only knows you via this blog! I’m sure you are a much better person than you sound like here (sometimes!).
August 20th, 2010 at 3:53 pm Erica(Quote)
btw, I messed up with the quoting system so my comment above looks all ‘quoted’. My apology.
August 20th, 2010 at 4:46 pm LK(Quote)
This has been the most interesting thing I’ve read all day!!! I got alot to say and ask and I hope I don’t lose you. First off, why are you so intolerant of Islam? Somewhere in the earlier posts you said “Respect is earnt and Islam in Australia continues to try and force itself upon me. As of yet I see no reason to give the religion (not it’s followers) any ounce of respect.” Im curious to how islam is being forced on you. Only people can force anything on you, which we shouldn’t be doing anyway.
You have the choice to beleive in watever you want without harasment or ill judgement and historically Islam has taught muslims that. But I don’t think you should feel so seemingly hateful.
I am muslim myself and I don’t find it very fair that on sunday mornings 30 tv stations are running church coverage. By controlling a good portion of TV thats in a way forcing christian beleifs on me. But I’m not going to get disrespectful or rude at them or the people handing out “Jesus Loves You” pamphlets in the parking lot while I’m just trying to buy some juice out of walmart. But I’m not going to tell you what to say, or be offended, or offend you.
Islam is composed of the words in the Qur’an and the Sunnah. Its takes a lifetime to understand thoroughly but sometimes people misinterpret, and muslims can act in a way that we should not.
So I apologize on behalf of the muslims for anything said or done to you that should not have been. I live in Richmond, VA, USA. Home to the slave trade and alot of racism still lives here. So between racial remarks because I am black or religious attacks, harsh words is nothin new to me. I just hope by being sincere and not returning the verbal abuse, people adjust to make dialougue comfortable for all parties invloved.
Yes that was entirely too long… So back to the subject.
I feel like there’s a problem. The problem is greed. Muslim, Christian, Jew, Agnostic, Free Mason, WATEVER. For one I think that the banking systems muslim and non are aimed to make too much profit. Two, people have gotten used to having what they can’t afford. Three, government taxation is rediculous. And Four, there are too many “you make too much” restrictions.
The economy in America is jacked because people make $40,000 a year but try to live like they make $100,000 a year. My dad built a house from the ground up, cost $35,000. The same house built in the city sittin on less land would be $139,000. Now the local govt determines how much the house is worth. They shoot higher because that means more taxes going to them. The bank has to loan you more, which again is taxed more on the bank end, and the bank also wants to make a profit so the big wigs up top can buy 2 million dollar yatchs.
Now lets say I want to not get wrapped up in mortgage interest and all and want to move to an apartment cheap enough that I can save up reasonably in a few years to buy a home in cash. The aparment complex tells you, you make too much so you have to move to a more expensive one which charges you just enough that you will never be able to save enough money to really buy a nice, not over the top home.
So either I move to a trailer park to save, I pay rent until I die, take out a mortgage that is going to end up in most instances costing me 2-4 times the amount of the home, or take out an islamic mortgage costing me 2-3 times the amount of the home. Everything about our economy is focused on keeping the “people” in debt.
Islamic loans would work wonders if they were more modest more of the time, say $150,000 home bought and payed back for $200,000. Enough of those and they will have more than enough reasonable profit. It just may take a while, but thats the point of a company making an investment. Sure paying 1.3mil on a 500K home would return that money alot faster, but that doesn’t help the people. And if we are the people, and its not helping the people, who are we helping?
And one more word to the wise. Islam doesnt need to earn respect. No one can take away nor add to it. It is complete and whole. BUT, people do need to give respect freely which I have tried to do and I hope I have earned your respect even if no more than respectful dialogue.
Hopefully someone can come up with a way to remove dying in debt from living modern…
From the other side of the world… literally, Peace(dueces)
August 21st, 2010 at 9:34 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
Some interesting discussion here guys. Thanks for the feedback, I’ll take it on board.
@Erica
Perhaps but I do try to go after the religion itself and the ideas it represents rather then the people who follow it. I guess the equivalent Well Wisher’s comments would be me crapping on about how everyone should stop following religion because firstly it’s idiotic, and secondly we’re all just going to wind up as wormfood.
I don’t have a problem with muslims as people, it’s just the religion they follow that gets me. Moderate muslims at this point would say ‘what about me?’ but I find it hard to be moderate in a religion that basically orders you to propagate itself without reason or rationale.
@LK
I really dislike the mindset it instills in people as well as the fact Islam appears to not be a passive religion. Ie. if I follow Islam it’s my life goal to see the world convert.
That and the level of devotion Islam demands seems to attract more then it’s fair share of nutjobs. Then you’ve got the Sharia governments in the Middle East, women’s rights and the viewpoint that anyone who isn’t muslim is dirty trash.
The west is seeing more and more muslims migrating and rather then adapting to their new environments, instead trying to convert it to their believe system and what they’ve previously left.
Needless to say there’s a lot I don’t like about the religion.
Uh what? In America you can’t choose what apartment you want to buy!? That’s seriously messed up.
So would the interest based system though. If people were borrowing within their means then there’d be no problems. Banks and lenders target people who live outside of their means by charging high interest because they understand these people (as long as they don’t go bankrupt) are the most profitable. Charge enough interest and you basically create an ongoing profitable residual income off them.
The same could be done with Islamic loans and I have no qualms in believing it would should they ever become mainstream. Instead of interest though you’d adjust the extra price whacked onto the house to maximise the amount you receive in repayments. Tailored of course to your clients income to keep them in debt.
I guess it’s easier without interest building up to escape debt under a halal loan due to fixed repayments but that wasn’t what I was originally writing about. In principle the interest is still paid, it’s just paid under a fixed lump sum – that was my original point.
No worries mate. I’m happy to discuss my views but my back goes up the second I hear ‘you’re going to hell!’ or the such equivalent. You have your religious views and I have my views, we don’t need to resort to petty threats about judgement, three questions and what not to have an intelligent and level headed discussion. Thanks for your contribution.
The only people that can remove debt are the people racking it up. The government can step in of course but I’d prefer to see people take personal responsibility for their finances. We cotton ball people up so much these days though it’s becoming harder and harder to do so I think.
August 22nd, 2010 at 7:13 pm LK(Quote)
Yeah its totally retarded. Not sure if all states are like that but that last crappy apt I was in raised rent to like $750/mo. All the apts I liked were $1000/mo and any apt under $700 pretty much told me I made too much so even if I wanted to deal with them just to save up I couldn’t.
So yeah, I bought a house w/ a $1056/mo mortgage. At least I can’t hear my neighbors through the walls!!
Yes unfortunately can’t defer the nutjobs but neither can any other faith. Womens rights in Islam is VERY misunderstood. Many times people mix a countries history of culture and custom with Islam because they are a primarily muslim country. And of course with our great selective media, a certain outside image gets attached to the religion instead of the heritage of the country.
As a muslim born in the US I’ve been approached many times by immigrant muslims with the famous “Well in my country we…”. And I’ll simply ask where in the Quran or Sunnah does it say to do such and such that way… Most times I don’t get an asnwer so that politely gets followed with a summarized ‘maybe you should go back to your country’.
Ya know its funny… I was just talkin to my wife last night. For muslims its Ramadan right now, the holy month of fasting. And I had heard from this guy that in Egypt, the night becomes like major party time. And she had heard the same thing from this guy Mike she works with who is Christian but he’s from egypt also. And he was like he loves Ramadan because there’s so much food and the nightlife is so active. And they guy telling me about it was saying people pretty much eat and socialize from the time they break fast at sunset until sohur, the time they stop eating in the early morning to begin thier fast. Then the place becomes almost dead and people sleep until its time to break again.
That is so contrary to what islam teaches us about fasting and the why and the how, but a tourist visiting that country would see a mass amount of muslims, and then see that behaviour and stick the two together in thier minds for all eternity and think and tell people thats what Ramadan is about.
And rightfully so, to a degree I feel you can’t blame the observer, blame the people portraying the wrong image. I was mind blown like WAT THE HECK and later we wonder why we have issues of being misunderstood later on down the road.
Same thing with the governments. Governments are still a body of people. They just have money, power and influence and unfortunetly more and more misuse them all. But that kinda goes back to how I feel I can almost hate people, especially those of hypocritical nature, but never the religion.
For me its becoming easier to distinguish thier acts from acts based on Islam. But you gotta know whats right in order to recognize whats wrong. Kinda like you don’t know your being a bad car unless you know how to recognise a good one.
Sorry this has become so lengthy. Don’t mean to like take over the blog or anything so…..
Simply and wholeheartedly… I agree
Catch you later! P-CE
August 22nd, 2010 at 7:16 pm LK(Quote)
LOL, where the heck did my picture come from?!?! And why that one? Thats horrible shot! wow, the internet got a mind of its own!
August 22nd, 2010 at 8:10 pm ozsoapbox(Quote)
My only problem with this is what if I don’t want to fast. Can I eat during the day normally without people giving me the death stare/making violent threats etc.?
Also Ramadan goes on for a month or something doesn’t it? How do you stay up all night partying for a month? And there’s the issue of partying itself. Islam being dry I imagine the parties are a bit slow or us non-believers.
I’m not saying alcohol is compulsory for a good night out but religious partying generally isn’t my cup of tea.
That’s alright I appreciate the discussion. There’s a few lengthy discussions going on here at the moment so you’re not alone
.
LOL, where the heck did my picture come from?!?! And why that one? Thats horrible shot! wow, the internet got a mind of its own!
You’ve used a slightly different email address for the comment with the picture (typo?). OzSoapbox uses Gravatars which enable photo avatars to be matched with email addresses. A
At some point you’ve linked that photo to the email address you used in that comment so my site has replicated that matchup display wise. Hope that makes sense.